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Post by szarasfora on Jan 20, 2009 14:47:17 GMT 1
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Post by cummel on Jan 25, 2009 13:15:45 GMT 1
very strange, I don't see it on FCI or other kennel club sites...
If this is true, I think, that the title WITH working point will lose of value because people wont see the difference easily. But our aim will always be to get working qualifications anyway, with or without title.
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Post by szarasfora on Jan 25, 2009 13:32:36 GMT 1
It is true. All Polish Kennel Club branch offices got the copy of the circular in writting.
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Post by cummel on Jan 25, 2009 15:19:28 GMT 1
ok, interesting to know, thanks for sharing. A little disappointing that even FCI itself is not up to date. Maybe the webmaster still in holidays  ? |
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Post by marjolein on Apr 25, 2009 8:41:39 GMT 1
I may be thick, but I don't really understand how it works. The international title my bitches both have, are gained by earning at least a working title. How does these titles say anything about working ability?  |
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Post by szarasfora on Apr 25, 2009 13:51:37 GMT 1
How does these titles say anything about working ability? It doesn't. C.I.E is only a SHOW TITLE. It doesn't say anything about hunting utility. Read why they created the new title and the opinion Mr Stefik gave about the new title: A proposal is made to create a new title for working breeds WITHOUT having to pass a working test to give the opportunity to owners of dogs considered as working dogs by the FCI Breed Nomenclature and who do not want to work with their dogs but enjoy them as pets to make them International Champions.
Mr Stefik thinks that this new title could cause a decrease of the number of working dogs.
The quote comes from the FCI circular about the General Committee meeting. |
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Post by marjolein on Apr 25, 2009 14:14:02 GMT 1
And where's the old title then? ?? Gone? |
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Kobie
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Post by Kobie on Apr 25, 2009 17:45:54 GMT 1
I think the old title remains:
CHIB is International beauty Champion, only valid with a FT point or workresult (for some countries)
CIE is International show champion, there is no workresult necessary.
Also only CHIB gives access to workclass in shows.
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Post by marjolein on Apr 25, 2009 20:10:08 GMT 1
Aha, thanks for the explanation Kobie.
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Post by calla on Apr 27, 2009 12:11:17 GMT 1
I think this new title is a crying shame and is doing our breed no favor !!!
In my eyes it is simply catering to the people that only show Weimis and disregarding a part of their personality which makes a Weimaraner a Weimaraner and not just a grey dog - his hunting ability. The international beauty champion was given to a "true" Weimaraner.
In Europe is is becoming more and more like in the US where the vast majority of Weims don´t even no that their hunting dogs. Field trial Weims and show bred Weims have often quite a different appearance. And since US bred Weims have tremendously influenced the "show-breeding" in Europe you see more and more dogs that don´t represent the true FCI standard and win irregardless !!!!
I have seen many Weims with very short backs a sloping top-line like a German shepherd 90 degree rear angulation a for-chest like a Dachshund and depth of chest like a Greyhound.
According to the FCI standard a Weimaraner has to be moderate.
But moderation you don´t find, and if, won´t win. I lived long enough in America to see what the extreme line-breeding has done to the breed. All sorts of genetic diseases and a short life span.
I have read for years the obituaries for famous stud dogs and females that just "suddenly" died only 5,6 or 7 years old.
Sorry for this I have no understanding. I just wish our beautiful breed wouldn´t go down the road of just a show- and family dog.
Unfortunately the new beauty title is just one step further down the wrong way.
Greetings from Germany
Nadja
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Post by Ilana on Apr 27, 2009 12:53:09 GMT 1
Hello Nadja,
Thank you for the "nice words" and your congrate about the American Weims,
I wish i could work with my dogs but in Israel we don't have a clubs for working dogs and the one and only test that we had in Israel for gundogs was in 2002,
I am still try to organize clubs to do another test.
I trained two of my dogs and passed the tests and got the In.ch beauty title,yes the one you are talking about and not shame from this one.
one dog that passed the test was my "Gray" (American dog).....he was 10 years old when he passed this test, 96/100 points.
the second male was Zippo sorry but American dog too... 94/100 points
the judge was from Hungary a very well know English Pointer breeder and gundogs judge.
So i am sorry that Roy's new title make you cry!
but i am not shame,
I am proud!!!!!
Ilana
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Post by calla on Apr 27, 2009 14:37:38 GMT 1
Hi Ilana,
I meant not to personally insult you ! The "Crying shame" is not for you or your dogs achievements. I meant it to be sad that the FCI once more is catering to the show people. That title was unnecessary in my eyes. And I had always respect of a Weim earning International beauty champion. My concerns is that most people will not recognize the difference of the 2 titles and therefor the title with working certificate is losing its value !
I owned too, many American bred Weims, since I lived their almost 15 years. But I saw it with my own eyes what show breeding has done to the Weimaraners. I am still in contact with many people in the WCA - I am up to date withe the breed in America. And Ilana you can believe the Weimaraner as a hunting dog is a laughing stock with American hunters. Most American Weims are just not usable for hunting. A junior or senior hunter is not a big achievement Ilena ! And why shy most Weim people of the testing of NAVHDA ? Because they ask a a little more of the dogs than run across a field and point. Sorry for my harsh words. I never mean to insult or hurt peoples feelings, but for our beloved grey ones we just must face the music.
For me a Weimaraner that can´t hunt just ins´t a Weimaraner.
The beautiful shell alone doesn´t count.
Nadja
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Post by cummel on Apr 27, 2009 15:51:54 GMT 1
That title was unnecessary in my eyes. My concerns is that most people will not recognize the difference of the 2 titles and therefor the title with working certificate is losing its value! I agree about that. |
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Kobie
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Post by Kobie on Apr 27, 2009 17:01:45 GMT 1
Yes, beauty versus show champion, my first thought was also that these titles were almost the same, however they are NOT !
A weimaraner should hunt, I totally agree with that. Difficult to compare different huntingtests/FT from different countries, as they mostly aren't comparable. Some tests are from low(er)/high(er) level, others aren't. Judges give the dog sometimes more chances or less, depends in what country, but it can make a huge different to the result at the end.
I really appriciate dogs with CHIB, they really deserved it, as its a combination of hunting and beauty, and in Belgium and Holland (as far as I know) not easy to get.
As a Belgian breeder, for me both is important, as most part of my puppies show/hunt, and its sertainly a goal for me.
I also agree that too much linebreeding could give healthproblems, so its up to us, breeders, to see it, recognise it, when it seriously goes wrong, and to avoid such breedings in the future (or breed this dogs), but unfortunately, its not always reality.
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