What Do You Feed?

[seddie]

What does everyone here feed their dogs? I am all for feeding variety and keeping diet as natural as possible for the dog's digestive system.

[Irena]

Seddie,

I thought about that too, but then how do you manage to keep it all balanced? I have tons of recommended dog diets (natural, by which I mean meat, dairy products, grains and such) in my numeorous dog books from the Soviet times, but I am wondering now, with all the discoveries in dog nutrition over the years and in other parts of the world, whether those are actually "right". Obviously dogs did well on them, but I don't know the complete picture. I would like to feed like that but also for the reasons of convenience I think I will have to feed mainly dry food. Is it possible to mix, or then ANY balance would be destroyed? I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this too. What works for your Weim(s)?

[marjolein]

I've been feeding my dogs the same diet since ages. They like it, eat it well most of the times and the Leonberger and Daan do fine on it. Well, Daan does fine on it when she's not hormonal, otherwise she just refuses to eat.
Mowgli on the other hand not. She has a poor skin condition. Her coat is full but not as long as it should be for a LH Weim (although no judge commented on that yet). She's always a bit itchy and her anal glands are already removed since she really suffered from that.
So that's reason enough for me to change their diet. I'm thinking about feeding them only natural stuff (as in fresh meat and additions). Problem is I'm not sure how to do that yet. What do you need to prepare them a proper balanced diet, where do you get it from??? What is absolutely not done??? Once I familiar with the subject, I'll change right away!

[seddie]

Firstly food need not be balanced at each meal. Providing balance is achieved over say a week that is fine.

It is okay to mix a commercial diet with a natural diet as long as the natural diet is a sensible one.

Some commercial dry foods, especially the premium brands, are very low in fibre. This can cause problems with anal glands.

A dog's natural diet would include fibre in the form of hair, and the contents of the herbivore prey's stomach.

If you are switching over to full or part natural feeding it would be a good idea to get a book such as those written by Tom Lonsdale or Ian Billingshurst.

Here is a link about BARF feeding: www.prizechoice.co.uk These people supply frozen foods that are BARF orientated but are based in UK.

It is fairly easy to make your own though from human grade meat and vegetables plus bone or bonemeal.

[greyghost]

I would love to give Abbie the odd chicken wing to eat but am sooo worried about the bones. I have spoken to lots of people who 'Barf' feed their dogs but just can't pluck up the courage.

She is the type of dog that has a very weak stomach and if she has a bone just breaks off huge chunks and swallows them and then is sick.

Should I just stear clear of bones?

[cressy]

Freddy my spaniel is fed raw. He is not good with veg though so I am still trying to introduce some into his diet.
Cressy the weim is fed Burns Complete for breakfast, often with a scoop of live yoghurt or a raw egg on. For tea she has raw meat.
Cressy and Freddy both have Vit E, FBO and Vit C as supplements.
Puppy dog has Burns Canine Extra but will be swapping to natural when I buy a bigger freezer . He has been having chicken wings since he was 13 weeks old. Just loves 'em. He crunches them whole .

Lesley. I wouldn't worry about the bone as such but Cressy just didn't take to bones and was sick each time. As Abbie, like Cressy is of more mature years and has probably been settled on her diet well I would not bother! For a treat give her a meal of raw meat and see what she thinks of that .

[greyghost]

Hi Sue,
Abbie has had some raw mince before but just on top of her dried and often has live organic yoghurt. Because she is on a complete food I have never supplemented. Not sure how she would be with a raw egg for instance and also does she need it anyway?

Don't think I want to 'rock the boat' but I would have liked to give her the odd chicken wing as a treat. I have a feeling she would try and swallow it whole.

[marjolein]

Maybe she gets better when you start feeding her BARF Les??? I'm pretty sure her sensitive stomach will dissapear right away.
But I have the same problem, it's a big step to make.

[seddie]

Les why not try just the gristly bit on the end of the wing to start with. If she is okay with that then you could try a whole wing. Use small ones, they will have come from younger chickens so will be less tough.

[Sylvia]

We only feeding our dogs Raw food.
Mostly we give a complete meal, but we also make something ourselves for them with bones and vegetables and all the stuff.
I have here a nice book for it to get started with BARF, it is the book from Mogens Eliasen.
There are more people who wrote about it, and you see in the different people that they have a different thought about how feeding them raw.

Since we are feeding them raw we saw the difference in the dogs. Now we directly can see which dogs are getting dry food. In every way they are doing better on raw food. It only never helped by our longhair male to get more hair on him

[wendy]

Hi

I have a 19mth old Weim (Holly) and 3yr old cross breed (Doug). I switched to RAW feeding about 12 months ago and would never go back. Mine are fed chicken carcasses, chicken wings, chicken necks, minced rabbit, beef, lamb and also tinned fish and vegetable with some cottage cheese and eggs thrown in for good measure.

They also get Vitamin C, Fich Body oils and Vitamin E each day.

The improvements i have noticed is the Weim is less scatty and more able to concentrate and focus. The cross breed had Hip Dysplaysia and a spinal problem but since being fed RAW has been able to come off all painkillers and is now acting more like a puppy again. The orthopeadic Vet agrees that it likely the RAW diet has contributed to this improvement.

The other thing which i think is important is that the cross breed also has an autoimmune disease which caused his nose to periodically start to eat away at itself and him to lose pigment in his lips. Since feeding RAW he has had no occurances of either.

Wendy

[Irena]

Wendy and others,

Thanks a lot for your input, and I was just wondering if you could post an approximate "menu" - like, this much of this product in the morning, then this mixed with that in the afternoon (again how much for your adult Weim). I cannot really picture the proportions... If and when you have a minute.

Sylvia, how can you tell the difference between a dog fed raw and a dog fed dry? What changes?

[seddie]

I'd do about 50% raw meaty bones, 25% meat or other good quality animal protein [eggs etc] and 25% veggies, using a variety of veggies including grass in the right season.

I don't do quantities, I just get and if a dog is too thin I up his quanities, if he gets too fat I reduce them. Also go on whether dog appears to be too hungry or too full. Weigh appetite up against body weight and you will soon have a good idea of what works best for your dog.

Diet is not an exact science and food does not need to be balanced at every meal.

[Irena]

Thanks Wendy!

[Sylvia]

Irena said:

Sylvia, how can you tell the difference between a dog fed raw and a dog fed dry? What changes?

I think you only see the differences IF you feed them raw.
The total coat is differen of a raw feed dog. And that is only the looks.

[Alkemist]

We have recently changed the way we feed our dogs and the results have amazed us. We used to feed quite a cheap food, mostly cereal based, but we've listened a lot to other owners who feed differently, and have put our dogs on a part raw, part lamb and rice manufactured diet.
I was a bit doubtful that feeding raw would affect my dogs as much as people said it would. I am now a total convert to the benefits of adding raw to my dogs diet. I don't feed completely raw, but since I have changed my dogs diet, their coats have changed, they are eating better, they are doing smaller poos, and their coats have changed colour. I think the food I was using had dye added to it that was showing through in my dogs coats
I just had to share how well they are doing.....

Nina and Jensen

[Irena]

Hi Nina,

that is great to hear!!! I have been feeding Audry raw and home made food, and only sometimes dry so she (and her tummy) knows what it is for when we have to travel. The subject of feeding is so controversial that I am really getting paranoid whenever I think about it. The opinions differ radically, and not only as to whether to feed kibble or raw or home cooked. I am always worried that she is getting too much of something and too little of something else. Then again, there is a controversy of whether she SHOULD be getting some of these things at all. So I am just assuming that in the end all that matters is if the dog seems like it is doing well on that diet. Then again, you can't see through him and know what it going on in his liver and kidneys etc. The excuse that dogs should be able to eat whatever wolves eat in the wild, is not always working either, because, for example, I've heard that wolves never bloat/have torsion whereas dogs can because of their big chests. If we breed only the dogs that can't have torsion, then we're breeding back to some primitive forms like the wolf. Etc, etc etc etc etc.

To illustrate it, here is an article: Pet Care Expert Cautions Against Raw Food Diet for Dogs

Sooooooooo, the only thing I know for sure is that with kibble, Audry puts out almost the same amount as she had taken in (even the "high quality" ones); and, since I just can't believe that kibble contains anything but grain and dead donkeys, I decided to try and feed her raw/natural/home cooked for as long as I can. Maybe I had better not experiment, but it is just that their "balanced" and "complete" kibble does not REALLY convince me that it is so very nutritious and good for her either.

[Alkemist]

Irena that is an interesting read - it's difficult as an owner / carer of dogs, to know what to do for the best sometimes. I find it difficult to follow 100% raw because of freezer space etc, but would if I could, despite this article. I think the bit about rice is something I've heard before, and I was a bit shocked about the euthanised animals
Jensen has gone from a dog who took ages to eat, to a dog who loves his meals, and when Shadow had a torsion recently, the vet said the 'old' dog food had set like concrete in his stomach - a possible contributing factor.... so I think we just have to do what we can. I'm a lot happier now, and the dogs are so much healthier ;D

Nina and Jensen

[smokeybear]

I have raw fed for 4 years now and would never return to commercial dog food. My dog has never been ill, had the squits or needed to visit the vet other than for jabs, speying and a lump removed.

My GSD pup was practically weaned on raw and is completely raw fed and attracts admiration wherever he goes.

Both have excellent teeth, skin, coat and muscle tone.

For me it is a no brainer, we all know that processed food is as healthy as raw, home made and it can contain so many preservatives, additives, colourings, flavourings etc which are at best unecessary and at worst potentially harmful.

I hear a lot about dogs, particularly Weimaraners and GSDs having "sensitive stomachs" which I personally do not ascribe to. I think they end up having "sensitive" stomachs because they are fed inappropriate diets.

[Leslie]

admin said:

To illustrate it, here is an article: Pet Care Expert Cautions Against Raw Food Diet for Dogs

I find that a lot of her advice about feeding to be counter to what I've read. I feed a mostly raw diet with occasional cooked meal. I've been studying a home-based diet for over 4 years now. There is a lot of conflicting advice, but from my personal experience and what I've gleaned reading, here are the essentials: There is no way a commercial food could compete with a PROPER home based diet. There are very good articles on k9joy.com/index.php and b-naturals.com. www.katberard.com/

A dog needs:

Meat. There are different opinions on raw or cooked or with bones. I find my dogs do best on raw meat with bones. I grind my bones and meat. I occasionally give cooked meat. Avoid raw fish from the Pacific Northwest USA. Specifically Salmon. Your dog could die from it. I occasionally give raw sardines.

Veggies: The veggies need to be broken down some way for them to be properly digested. If you think about it a lot of the dogs veggies would be taken from the stomach of its prey which would be partially digested. steam and puree or juice the veggies. I personally feed 1/3 veggies. Be careful with too much calciferous. Can give gas. Avoid: raw potato, eggplant, onions, spinach, too much tomato. Go easy on fruits and sugary veggies like carrots and beets.

Grain: Big disagreement about this. Some claim none, some claim some. I feed 1-2 meals a week with grain. I rarely use rice. White is too high in sugar and can cause constipation and brown too hard to digest. I often use oatmeal or Quinoa. If you feed grain, feed it separate from the raw meat.

Eggs: A good weekly addition. Raw egg white is not good! Cook the egg just until the white is cooked.

Supplements: The following are ESSENTIAL!

CALCIUM
A dog must have CALCIUM. Very important. Either from bones or a calcium additive. You shouldn't give your own calcium tabs. Find a calcium specifically for dogs/cats.

FISH OIL: Very important. Be sure you get a fish oil guaranteed to be without mercury. You get what you pay for.

Enzymes and Probiotics: A dog's diet in the wild would be getting probiotics from the stomach of it's prey. Unless you decide to feed unprocessed tripe regularly - you must supply a supplement. Dogs do not adequately produce their own. That article goes against every other thing I've read and every other vet I've ever talked to. Also, I do not consider yogurt to be a good choice in adding probiotics. A dog's natural diet does not have dairy and yogurt does not supply enough probiotics per dose.

Glucosamine and Chondroitin can be very important, but some dogs are allergic. My Ellie can't take it. MSM might be better.

A multi-vitamin: Let's face it, quality of food isn't the same as it was in the past and providing all the exact minerals, etc is difficult. We all need a multi.

That's the nutshell! If you still want to feed kibble but want to give some home foods, the important thing to remember is if feeding meat, you need to balance with calcium. (supplement if no bones) and stay away from too much sugary fruits and veggies. Giving them some juiced raw veggies on their kibble wouldn't hurt.