Show grooming for Longhairs?

[Irena]

I just got to thinking, how do you prepare/groom your Longhairs for conformation shows? What do you do?

The FCI standard says:
"Long-haired : Soft, long topcoat with or without undercoat. Smooth or slightly wavy. Long flowing hair at ear set on. Velvety hair is permissible on tips of leathers. Length of coat on flanks 3 - 5 cm. On lower side of neck, forechest and belly, generally somewhat longer.
Good feathering and breeching, yet less long towards ground. Tail with good flag. Hair between toes. Hair on head less long. A type of coat similar to a double-coat (Stockhaar) with medium length, dense, close fitting topcoat, thick undercoat and moderately developed feathering and breeching, sometimes occurs in dogs of mixed ancestry. "

The "hair between toes" and on the lower (under?) side of the neck confuses me a little. I always thought if I had a LH, I would trim it like they do Setters, but I guess this is not the case? What does everyone do, if anything, with Longhairs before shows?

[marjolein]

I don't trim them at all, to the disgust of a couple of my fellow show mates, hehehe. Like the standard says, the dog should have hair between and under the toes, for protection. I won't cut that away for a show. In England they even cut the hair up to the hockers (sp???).
I only brush them, that's it.

[smokeybear]

I trim the feet (as I hate hairy, unkempt paws) and trim the back legs up to the hock as Mar says.

The hair is still there just not so much of it and quite enough to protect the feet from general wear and tear.

After all if the SH do not need extra protection I cannot understand why the LH would?

[Irena]

In a way, I REALLY can't wait for the AKC to invite the LHs into the ring - I would loooove to see what happens to it in the capable hands of American groomers!! <ducking and running before someone throws a tomato at me >

Does anyone have pics of groomed LH's in the ring, with comments? Would be interesting to see.

[marjolein]

Well Allyson, don't forget my LH's are not as hairy as yours, hehehe. There is some difference.
I do have a pic of the stud I'm going to use. He is properly trimmed on this pic.

[smokeybear]

Mar there seems to be a lot of difference in coats in LHs, I wonder why that is.

When I saw some piccies recently of some LHs they looked to me as what some of ours look like when they drop their coats.

Luger is a very nice boy. Just like his sire, grand sire and great grand sire!

[Irena]

Wow, look at that tail!!!! Pretty nice!!

OK, I have a plan. I'm going to get myself a stunning LH (anatomy, movement and coat), do it up nicely and enter it in AKC shows. To disqualify me, they'd have to let me go into the ring first,is that right? (Not sure, I can never remember what is a "serious fault" and what is a "DQ" in some standards) Well anyway, at least I would have those few seconds while I take the dog into the ring, ;D and meanwhile everyone would get to see how cool they can be, and maybe if enough people ask AKC why they haven't recognized the LH in the rings yet, they finally will? I am sure I am mixing things up here, maybe it is the Weim club of America that has to petition for it, sorry ) LOL

[marjolein]

Yes, there is a significant difference, even on the mainland. Your coats are rather long, compared to even the best coats on the mainland. I think your coats are not really what we want to see on the mainland.
The reasons we have poor coats, is due to SH x LH matings I think. In Germany, dogs from mixed matings are not judged on their coats, up till the third generation after the mixed mating. I think that explains it. Mowgli for example, has on both sides a LK (longhair out of SH x SH or SH x LH)which explains her coat I think. The stud I used has a SH as his granddad. In my litter, the dogs that look like Mowgli have a fab coat, much better than most LH's I've seen in Holland. The other dogs that look more like their dad, and my Daan could have a better coat. That's one of the reasons I wanted a stud with a full LH pedigree (up till the 6th generation, maybe even further).
Do you see a difference in coats in pups from mixed matings in England Allyson?

[marjolein]

Irena, the LH won't be recognised before the blues are recognised I think. It will happen though, mark my words, although I think it will take a couple more years unfortunately.

[smokeybear]

Hmm, not necessarily, for example I know several from mixed matings that have good coats. However I HAVE seen one example of a ghastly coat from a mixed mating. I have also seen some horrible coats from LH to LH matings.

Not a lot, because of course there are not a lot of LHS in the UK, certainly not always on view.

Also I think that there is a difference between "long" and "thick", ie I have seen long coats with no thickness and thick coats withou much length.

Twiggy for example has a very thick coat but does not have a lot of furnishings but a VERY plumy tail.

It is difficult to judge her now as well since she has been spayed, parts or her tend to go "woolly" ;(

We did have a dog in the UK that was dripping with coat, not to standard but it did not stop it winning...............

[smokeybear]

Irena I would have thought the AKC would recognise LH before Blues.

The reason?

LH are included in EVERY standard bar the AKC, Blues are included in NO standards at all, the colour is always a fault.

Therefore it would be, IMHO, wrong to recognise a colour other than grey.

Here in the UK we are having the KC standard updated to include shades of grey and "non standard" so that there can be no confusion, due to a blue bitch being imported into this country.,

We cannot of course stop people breeding from non standard dogs, but we can make sure that they are registered as such.

[marjolein]

I totally agree with you about the blues Allyson, but mark my words, they will be recognised b4 the LH. Well, if my information is correct....

[Sylvia]

Well if I have to trim him..
I think there will be nothing left of the coat ;D

[Alkemist]

I don't have longhairs, so some may say I shouldn't comment, but I will anyway hehe.

I prefer to see coats that are not too long on the body. Long feathers are really nice, but I suppose it might be difficult to get the longer feathers without extra length on the body? ? Dunno.

Anyway, as a shorthaired owner it doesn't affect me ... yet, but who knows, I might venture into l/h's oneday...

Nina and Jensen

[weimaranermama]

I never groomed my longhairs for a show. I let them swim and brush them. When there is too much hair between the toes, i trim them a little but after that, there is still hair between the toes and under the feet.

[syrinx]

Can we have the names of the dogs in the pics?
I don't agree on the LHC x LH giving less coat. As far as I can see, and genetically speaking, the gene is there or it is not. Like the way that a smooth pup of a LH parent is ALWAYS a LHC. The amount is dictated by the line, regardless if it is expressed (as in, a longhair) or carried, as in, the dog is a LHC. Take my Lara. She does not have a big coat, and it is the close, silky type. She is a LH x LH pup, her mother has a bit less coat than her, and back in her line are dogs with not a lot of coat. Her father is a LHC x LH, and he has much more coat, and much thicker. Phantom is a LHC, and his line has a lot more coat. Their son Riley, has the thicker coat of his grandfather, and certainly has more than his mum, more like the amount his Dad's line has. However, I don't know how he will work out for the amount of coat, as when he had his operation and almost died, his coat slowly fell out. At 7 months he had more coat than at 18 months, although it is just starting to come back.

As far as grooming, I think that as the hair between the toes is mentioned in the standard, it stays as it is a breed characteristic. Riley doesn't really have anything on the back of his hocks, Lara does, and although her breeder trims hers, I don't know that there is enough to worry about. I just comb it down flat, and you can't really see it.

Grooming for the ring for me, a wash with (my secret recipe!) they all sleep in the house, so we don't get anything like the winter coat some do, (mainly noticed on the smooths at the National) so shedding is less dramatic and dog doesn't look nearly so bad. I give the longs a brush, comb the tail, fluff up the ears, back comb the chest and neck to show it is longer there, back comb feathering for the same reason and GO! Takes about 90 seconds! The best grooming starts with good diet and the shine from the inside. I much rather my dogs love the bait and the toy in my pocket and think they are just going for a run with Mum. Lara loves nothing more than a good roll and back rub in the grass, and I don't mind. I just brush it off with my hand, and thank heaven that I have dirt-coloured dogs! I don't fret over it, as it was said to me, nerves travel down the lead.
They don't trim them under the neck like Setters, because we have WAY less coat than them, less than Goldens, which they don't trim the same way. Then again, I remember when they didn't shave Setters like that, either.
Wendy
PS, Irena, I know where there are going to be some LH babies .......

[syrinx]

As far as the American groomers, you can only work with what you've got. They will have to selectively breed for coat, and I am sure that will happen, I just hope it is not at the expence of quality and type.
Wendy being cynical

[Irena]

syrinx said:

PS, Irena, I know where there are going to be some LH babies .......

;D

[Sylvia]

syrinx said:

Can we have the names of the dogs in the pics?

Well this is our Longhair boy Bo-ghy

[syrinx]

I have a question - the standard says with or without undercoat, but I have never seen one with undercoat. Has anyone on the list got one/ seen one? If so, what effect does it have on the coat? I would sure make shedding a pain!
Wendy