Longhair-to-Longhair breedings?

[addicted2weims]

Question? Does anyone know how to research pedigrees for Weimaraners who are LH gene carriers? Of course, I am looking in the USA for lines that might be LH carrier.

[anne]

Try Britfield's site www.britfield.com. There is a short list. But I think the best way is to talk to other breeders.

[Sylvia]

addicted2weims said:

Question? Does anyone know how to research pedigrees for Weimaraners who are LH gene carriers? Of course, I am looking in the USA for lines that might be LH carrier.

I maybe have a longhair carrier, but I don't live in the U.S.A. LOL ;D

[syrinx]

Melissa, any longhair is a 'true' longhair, it doesn't matter how it gets there. As it is an actual carried or expressed recessive gene, you've got it, or you don't. With a breed, such as Chihuahuas, they have longs and smooths, but it is a coat type, there is not a gene responsible for it in the same way. That way, if you mate the two types in one litter, or over a couple of generations, you will get pups that are sort of fluffy - neither long nor short. With Weis that doesn't happen. And as it is a black and white thing (you got it or you don't) it doesn't affect coat length of course. My girl Lara is from a LHxLH mating, but a line with not a lot of coat. She was put to our carrier (LHC we call them) Phantom and the resultant litter has a smooth with a typical carrier coat (thicker, SLIGHTLY longer, mainly noticable at the point of withers) and a longhair boy who has more coat than his mum, as the longs behind his dad have more coat.
An interesting fact I saw somewhere, but can't remember where, was that it had been discovered (in Germany, I think) that LHCs have about twice the number of hair folicles per centimetre than non-carriers have. Might explain why my two carriers feel the heat more than the others.
Wendy

[chiendog]

Melissa,

I know of two excellent LH males in the U.S.

Both are imports from Germany and both are from LHxLH breedings. I know the breeder of these dogs and have hunted with him in Germany. I have also hunted with both dogs here in north america. One is on the east coast, the other on the west coast. Send me a private message if you would like further information.

Cheers!

[smokeybear]

The only way you will KNOW if the dog is a LHC is when it is used for breeding no?

[marjolein]

Yep

[acewild55]

I think you should be able to tell before they are used..... All the LHC 's I know have longer denser coat.. you just can't miss it...

[syrinx]

If a dog is from a LH x SH mating, all pups are LHC as they have a LH parent. That is how recessive genes work.
Wendy

[smokeybear]

Really, I did not know that; how come then if this is so, if such a dog is mated several times to a LH that no LH puppies are born?

[marjolein]

Maybe because it's not a carrier after all.

[weimaranermama]

My dog Foster is a real LHC, but you don't see it. He is from LH x SH parents. The only way to see if your dog is a LHC is, when he or she will have SH and LH puppies in one litter.
My Foster had in his first litter 2 SH and 6 LH puppies, so i'm shore he is a LHC.
For the ones who are looking for a LHC, he is living in Holland and he is an official studdog. For pics of Foster you can see the studdog list.

[syrinx]

So this dog who doesn't throw longhairs, I take it that it's a SH x LH and the mother is the smooth??
Wendy

[smokeybear]

No

[syrinx]

I can actually explain it. The answer is found through probability. You see, just because there is a % figure given for each type of coat that would be sired by a particular combination, that doesn't mean that will be the case in every litter. Those figures are worked out over 100 puppies, so although each litter seems to have a mix to some degree (just like the figures say) that does not mean it will happen every time. Like the people who win Lotto more than once, and the people who buy tickets all their life and never get a thing.
I will start a new thread and explain the inheritance of recessive genes. It is Mendolin (sp?) genetics.
Wendy

[Steve Graham]

smokeybear said:

The only way you will KNOW if the dog is a LHC is when it is used for breeding no?

This is an old thread, but I hope that some listers are still around.
Note that through the efforts of some members of the Weimaraner Association of Canada, the longhair allele has been isolated and can now be identified - not only in Weimaraners, but in some other breeds as well.
See www.vetdnacenter.com/
Since carriers of the longhair allele can now be identified BEFORE breeding, that should remove any objection to breeding LH X SH Weimaraners based upon uncertainty of coat type.

[Steve Graham]

Now I see this was discussed back in February. I guess I was out of the loop on things.
What is still open, however, is what we can learn about the stockhaar coat type from what information we have available

[greyghost]

I think Tasha has a lot of information on this subject. Hopefully she will add to it, if anybody is still interested...

[tasha]

I am only just starting to collect info on the longhairs so I don't have much to be honest they are difficult to track even in the UK because so few breeders register which pups have the longhair coat in a litter. So unless you come across them another way its alot of guessing.

I've had the LHC test done on my bitch and she is not a carrier, a few other people have done the same. It is a very interesting subject and one I am sure with the test will prove to be a very valuable resource in the future.

Daniela very kindly provided a piece of research carried out by Val Hawes and Ray Martin which is very useful and I have been able to expand on in to some degree with research we have already done into the american dogs based on their carrier theories. Of course we will never know unless more people take up the test so the more that we can encourage to do so the better.

I am considering an experiment to see if breeding a LH to a SH or a LHC to a SH will provide the ratios that they suggest in the current data and to see if about the stockhaar coat but I have other consideration to make before I go ahead... I do have a need for another pup but have so far put it off. So I am also looking for litters that have a similar breeding to see if the breeders would be prepared to test... a very interesting subject indeed.

Ina will you do the test on foster?? I know that he is a confirmed carrier through breeding so it would be interesting to see what the test result would be for accuracy and if he has the stockhaar gene???

[Steve Graham]

tasha said:

I am considering an experiment to see if breeding a LH to a SH or a LHC to a SH will provide the ratios that they suggest in the current data and to see if about the stockhaar coat but I have other consideration to make before I go ahead.. I
....
know that he is a confirmed carrier through breeding so it would be interesting to see what the test result would be for accuracy and if he has the stockhaar gene???

So far, the test for the LH allele amongst Canadian dogs has been 100 pct. The correct theoretical ratios are incontrovertable, but I have seen some incorrect information on this thread regarding probability. Where SH and LH are concerned, the mathematical laws of probability apply.

Where stockhaars are concerned, there's too much unknown.
Note that there is NO DNA test at this time for a stockhaar allele, if there is one.

What we KNOW is that a recent breeding in Canada between a German-import longhair and a tested non-carrier shorthaired Weimaraner produced a litter of nine pups of which four were stockhaars. And, of course, each is a carrier of the LH allele (This is significant, but there's a danger of making unsupported assumptions.)

The sire is out of my German male's half sister. I'm planning a breeding to a shorthaired Weimaraner soon and I'll be interested in the results.