Hi from Southern California

[anne]

Irena, I finally made it over here. I see that there are some American members, so thought it'd be OK to join. I also recognize a few of the current memebers. Thanks for letting me join.

I and my boyfriend of 10 years have 3 Weimaraners. We are mostly active in hunting/field trialing, but also show in conformation and obedeince. Our dogs are:

DC Outdoors Life of Riley, CD, SDX, RDX, VX2, TDI
"Riley" male, 5 years old

Spectrum Once in a Blue Moon, CGC, TDI, TT, NAVHDA NA 1 (112)
"Indy" female Blue weim, 4 years old

GRB's Touchstone Lil Pixy Stix
(NFC FC Von Weiner's Smokin Winds Holiday x FC AFC Gould's GRB's Little Chular)
"Pixy" female, 5 months old
"

[Wetdog]

HI ANNE! I'm glad you came! I hope you like it here. ;D

[anne]

Thanks Wetdog! I have enjoyed looking around so far! Look forward to being here.

[Kobie]

Hi Anne,

Welcome to the European forum.

I was wondering.... Can you explane how weimaraners become FC or JH,SH, ..... in the USA ?

We also do a lot of field trials here, mainly with our male, and I would like to know how field trials work in other countries ! Every Weekend, we do one or two trials....

Best regards
Kobie

[Irena]

Hi Anne, and welcome!! Glad to see you here!

[Ilana]

Hi Anne, and welcome!!

[marjolein]

Hi Anne and welcome!!!!
Well done for achieving all that with your dogs!!!!

[anne]

Thank you for the warm welcome everyone.

Kobie,

In the US, Weims are classified as pointing dogs, not versatile dogs (dumb, I know). To become a FC (Field champion) the dog must attain 10 points including a "major" which is a win of 3 points or more, up to 5 points. The points are calculated by the number of dogs defeted. So, for 3 points, your dog must beat 12 other dogs. You can only apply 4 points from the juvenile stakes (puppy or derby) towards the 10 points. Field Champions are not as common in Weims as show champions. To get an idea, in 2004, 208 Weimaraners finished their show championship versus 8 Weimaraners that finished their field championship. Even rarer is a Dual Champion, a title that Riley received this past summer. There are only 14 DC's alive right now. In field trials you can get a FC title or an AFC (Amateur Field Championship) title, or both. The stakes are divided into Open or Amateur, oftentimes amateurs are competing against pros.

The setup for the broke dog stakes is usually a half hour to hour course that are peppered with planted birds. Here in California we usually use chukar or quail. The dogs are run in braces. Sometimes the field is divided into a "backcourse" and a "birdfield," in which case for a 30 min course, there would be 22 minutes in the backcourse. Here the judges are usually looking for good range and application, steadiness on birds which are blanked. If an opporutnity for an honor comes up the dog must honor. Once the dogs get to the birdfield, which is 8 minutes, the handlers get off their horses and there are gunners there that shoot the birds. Again the dog is supposed to have good bird manners, and this time the birds are shot and the dog is to retrieve to hand.

In order to get a FC a Weim must also pass a water test which is a basic retrieving test that shows that the dog will swim. The WCA retrieve ratings, Novice Retrieving Dog, Retrieving Dog or Retrieving Dog Excellent will substitute for the water test.

Field trials are usually (but not always) run on horseback and slightly different attributes are prized compared to hunt tests. Hunt tests are always held on foot and it's not a competition, rather than a comparison to a standard so are pass/fail tests. A junior hunter title requires 4 passes, and the dog has to show a desire to hunt, point birds and that is about it, manners aren't so important, as the "junior" name implies. A Master Hunter is a finished dog who stands steady to wing and shot and will retrieve to hand and honor without command. A Senior Hunter is in between.

The NAVHDA testing system is probably the closest to the German testing system. The dogs are tested not only in the field but for waterfowl work and tracking. However not much emphasis is put on fur.

Hope that answers your question. I'd be interested in hearing about field trials in other countries as well.

Just for information, the titles on my dogs are:
DC = Dual Champion, show champion and field champion
CD = Companion Dog, the lowest obedience title
SDX = Shooting Dog Excellent, WCA ratings test title for field
RDX = Retrieving Dog Excellent, WCA rating test title for retrieving (land and water)
VX2 = WCA Versatile title, this title given based on the other titles, on a point system where the dog must acquire points in various categories
TDI = Therapy Dogs International, registered therapy dog
CGC = Canine Good Citizen, the most basic obedience test
TT = Temperament Test (passed)
NAVHDA NA I = Natural Ability Prize I (112 points a perfect score), dog is tested for natural ability in field, water and tracking.

[Kobie]

Hi Anne,

Thank you for your explanation....
I was always wondering what these titles contained!

Ok, try to explane how field trials work over here !

First field trials.

We have amateur and open class field trials.
The quotations are in amateur and open the same, meaning, honourable mention, CQN (French for Natural hunting ability), Good, Very good, Excellent, CACT (national) and CACIT (International)
To get the Ch. of work title, you should need 2 CAC or CACIT (IT for International Working Ch)
This is almost impossible for a weimaraner. If you know that we speek over here of a Excellent hunting weimaraner, if he obtaines a few times (let's say min. 3-4 times) the qualification Good or Very good (in first or second ranking place), you have a highly qualitive dog....
Never in history, a weimaraner got this title. We have in Belgium something like 4-5 working weims.... Many others try, but never succeed. The judges are so strikt over here, they rarely give Excellent. So you can imagen this is hard for a weimaraner. All the aspect should be perfect in the trial to have the quotation Excellent (but means not automaticaly CACT !!). In other countries, like France, they give easelier the quotation Excellent. I saw once this point in field trial and was changing colour if I saw in what poor condition this dog got a Excellent. It would never happen over here...
If a dog runs after a rabbit, you're out of the contest.
He always have to respect rabbits, how many there are in the field. We had once a field trial, our male had bad luck. He had to do his run and got 7 !! rabbits. He respected 6 rabbits, but the 7th was too much for him. And I can not blame him. Mostly, weimies like to run after rabbits...

To become Belgian Show Champion, you also need a point (minimum CQN) and 2 CAC to obtaine the Ch. title.. To become here International show Champion, you need at least 'Good" in field and 2X CACIB on shows...
So you can imagen, that only a few weimis become Belgian and International show champion....

For me, a weimaraner need to have the field work in his genes, if it's taught, it's not real for me... You can easely see the difference .

Then we have also the huntingtests (simmular to the German ones)

We have basic and advanced huntingdiploma's. With this diploma's, we can not become Belg. or Inter. ch...

The basic is retreiving, waterwork, obedience, lost apport (tracking) .....
The advanced is more difficult than the basic diploma.
The dog needs to swim over (far) diep water and apport game it back to his hunter.
If one of the things is not right, you are not succesful.
I can write so much more about this, but I would sit here for another hour

Kobie

[anne]

Kobie,
Thanks so much for explaining how it works there. I sure wish here in the US dogs had to pass some sort of hunting test to become a champion. We have a big split in our breed between show dogs and field dogs, and this to me is not right. I agree with you, you can easily see the difference in the dogs that have been bred to hunt.
Weims here like rabbits too, and we have a lot of wild ones here. I don't know if my dogs could resist rabbit #7 either!
Anne

[Sylvia]

Hi Anne,

Welcome here on the board.
Well I see you everywhere now ;D

[anne]

Hi Sylvia,

I know huh, you will be sick of me! LOL
Great pictures you posted on the other lists!

Anne

[Ingvild]

Hi!
In Norway the Weimaraner competes against all the other pointing breeds (English as well as continental breeds). All breeds are judged in the same way. We have three types of field trials dependant on where they take place. Mountain ( willow ptarmigan) , low land (pheasant ++) and in the woods. The dogs are run two and two (with the exception of in the woods where they run one at a time). When a dog points a bird the owner must let the judges know and then asks the dog to flush the bird. A dog is expected to flush the bird with out hesitation. When the bird takes to its wings the dog has to stop/ sit/ lie down immediately and has to remain calm when the gun is fired. (If I have understood it correctly the dog doesn’t flush the bird it self in America?)

You compete as "junior" until the dog is two years old. The dog is judged more for his natural ability and less for "manners" as a junior. After the age of two the dog is expected to be a finished dog and has to enter in the Open class. If the dog get's a first prize in the Open Class he or she will be able to compete in the "winner class", however no Weimaraner has ever got a 1 prize on a field trial here in Norway, even though the Weimaraner is very much a "dual" dog here. To become a show champion you have to have a first prize in a field trial. We also have retrieving trials where the dog has to retrieve in the water and on land. For dog's two years and older the rules are like this:
1) Two Willow ptarmigans are placed in a field about 70-100 meters away from where the dog starts out. The owner does not know where they are placed. The dog has to find and retrieve the two birds with out damaging them. (You get points from 1 - 10, anything lower then 4 is a failing mark). 2) A bird ( sea gull) is thrown from a boat 100 meters off land and a gun is fired. The dog has to remain steady (off the lead) and wait for the retrieve command. The dog retrieves the bird to hand.
3) A bird is dragged 200 meters (with to turns /angles) and then placed at the end. The dog is asked to find the track (alone) and retrieve the bird.

The junior retrieving class is a lot like the Open class, but a bit easier: The dog has to find one bird (in stead of two) and has to water retrieve at a shorter distance then the adults.

[Kobie]

Hi Ingvild,

I can see it's even more difficult in Norway to become show champion... First price in open field trial is indead hard....

Do you have also different quotations like we have ?

We can always compete in open or amateur class, meaning, you can not compete anymore in amateur class if you should get a CACT in amateur class. But this is almost impossible....
You can NEVER compare the quotations in field as in show, because when your dog has a few times 'good' or 'very good', you have a EXCELLENT working dog !!!!

We are very blessed with our male.... He is a natural excellent working dog and he likes it very very much....
I think we will never have such a nice dog again....

Kobie

[Sylvia]

kobie said:

Hi Ingvild,

I can see it's even more difficult in Norway to become show champion... First price in open field trial is indead hard....

Sweden is in that the same, in Sweden they work with points. You first have to do a retrievingtest before you can enter a trial. That points of that test also count for the total prize on the field. You must have have at least 7 points for the fieldworking.

I think because they work with a pointsystem the change on a 1st price is higher then we have here in Belgium and Holland. If you have 10 - 10 on the retrievingtest (10-10-10 Eliteclass (Championclass)) you are far on the way already to the 1st price.

In Sweden you can get the Huntingchampiontitel if you have an 1st price in Eliteclass and passed the "Anlagklass" Bloodtracking and have a price on show 2d price at least (same as Very Good here)

[Kobie]

Very interessting Sylvia,

Thanks
Kobie

[Ingvild]

I'm not sure I know what you mean by quotations, but if you mean a kind of "grade" then yes we get that. The dogs are judged on a scale from 1-6 in various areas:
"The desire to hunt" , speed, style, independence, flushing, precision, cooperation, retrieving, something called "rapport" (when the dog backs out of a point to go find his owner and show him the bird) and "reviering" (I don't know what this is called in English but it is the way the dog covers the ground back and forth. For the first four the grade 6 is the best grade, but anything from 3 and up is very good. For range, "reviering" and cooperation the grade 4 is the best grade.

[Sylvia]

kobie said:

Very interessting Sylvia,

Thanks
Kobie

Ohh I forgot to tell, if you want to enter the Elitclass in Sweden you need of course a price in Open class, and I made a mistake you must have 2x 1st prices at the eliteclass, SORRY

[Sylvia]

And for the "history" lovers.
There are only 3 Hunting Champions in Sweden.
To know:

Disodil's Metal Jacket (Owned by Scuba's / Anci & Nicke Niklasson)
Scuba's Barfüssige Barbara (Owned by Scuba's / Anci & Nicke Niklasson)
Mimmtrix Sally (Owned by Mimmtrix / Mimmi Erixon)

Mimmtrix Sally is also the only triple champion in Sweden (Show, Hunt and Bloodtracking Champion)

Well you see now Kobie what I meant with their good huntingdogs

[anne]

Very interesting everyone! So it sounds like most coutries judge against a standard rather than competing against other dogs.

In the US we also compete with other breeds.

Sylvia, I handled a dog at a show here last June that whose father was a Mimmtrix dog, he was with a handler for field training, but was doing some confomration shows at the time. Handler had too many dogs so I helped out. We will see the dog run in field trials this fall, can't wait to see how this dog does, always interesting to see non-US dogs run.

Anne