Hello from France

[Leslie]

Hello,

Just joined. I am American from the San Francisco Bay Area, but I now live in the Loire Valley in France. I brought my Weimaraner from California. She's a 3 year old named Fairhaven's Wind Dancer or "Ellie". Her papers have been transferred to the SCC. We are members of the CABW, the Weimaraner club here. She has done a pretty good job in Conformation, earning 2 RCAB and RCACS (Reserve Winner) and is classed in Excellent. She also has her TAN (natural ability in hunting) We also are training and competing in Agility.

Anyway, those are the "logistics"

Anyone else here from France? Look forward to meeting you all.

Leslie Nicole

[marjolein]

Hello Leslie Nicole and welcome here!! I own 2 LH's, both dutch show champion. The youngest one (bred her myself) is also doing a great job at field trials in Holland and we've also done the German natural ability tests.

[Kobie]

Hi Leslie,

Welcome to the Forum.
We live in Belgium, very close to France....
We own 2 weims, and one on the way... We also did with our male the TAN in France, year 2003.
I guess you can confirm that French Weims are very different of exteriour than the ones you are used to..

[anne]

Hiya Leslie! Good to see you here!
Anne

[Wetdog]

HI Leslie Nicole, it is a pleasure to have you join us.
I hope you like it here. 49'er land to castle land!!! WHAT a hop!!! I'd be interested in how that came about if you don't mind telling us.

[Irena]

Welcome to the board!!!

[Leslie]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, there's at least one familiar name there, Anne :-) Kobie, yes the Weim's are a bit different than the Weim's in America. I created a little bit of a stir here too as my girl is a Blue Weimaraner. I've ended up in France because my husband is French. Marjolein, you're longhairs are very nice. I'll pass on this link to the French Weim owner's here too. Leslie

[Irena]

lnicole said:

I created a little bit of a stir here too as my girl is a Blue Weimaraner.

Leslie, I must not be getting something right. If that is the same girl mentioned in the first post, how could she be shown in conformation, being a Blue? Could you clarify?

[anne]

I'm going to butt in. I know Leslie Nicole from when she lived in California and am familiar with her dog's pedigree and also know her breeder (who by the way is only 1 of 2 Blue breeders I can recommend).

From what I understand there is no clear understand of what "gray" means. In other words, some people feel that Blue is a shade of gray. And indeed, the blue color IS a charcoal gray. Also, if you look at some of the old documentation from when the first Blue was brought to this country from Germany, there was confusion over whether the dog was "mouse-gray" or "blue" and it has been documented that the 2 terms were used inter-changeably.

I know of a Mexican Champion that is a Blue Weim. When I asked him about the color, he told me that they view Blues as Grays.

[Leslie]

Yes, Anne is correct. There is nothing in the FCI standard that specifically says a Blue is disqualified. Most judges have marked her down as a mouse-gray. She did get marked down by one judge for being darker than he preferred, but she still took Reserve Winner from him. She also took first in her class and Reserve Winner under the president of the Weim club judging. One thing worth mentioning is that Ellie is a silvery, light Blue. She's definitely a Blue, but lighter shade than some Blues. What has made a big difference for her is that her nose and nails are a medium grey, not black and her eyes are a pale grey/green/amber, not dark amber. Within the Weim community here, there are those who love her color and those that don't - as to be expected.

[Irena]

lnicole said:

There is nothing in the FCI standard that specifically says a Blue is disqualified. Most judges have marked her down as a mouse-gray.

That is correct, only colours "other than grey" are disqualified.

I was just wondering if this was possible because the judges here were simply not aware of the "blue" Weimaraners existance (unlike in the USA) and didn't know that although the dog they are looking at only looks darker, it's genotype is completely different from that of a grey dog?

I have never seen a blue in real life, but in pictures, if blue and grey are side by side, the difference IS certainly noticeable. Probably if I showed such a dog to 50 people by a supermarket and asked what colour it was, all would answer "grey". But I am however surprised at the judges.

Which makes me wonder, could it be that there are other blue Weims in Europe that have been routinely shown and bred along with greys because no one noticed the difference and the colour just seemed "a little darker than usual"?

[smokeybear]

There are certainly no blues that are shown in the UK and although I have not seen one in the flesh I have seen plenty of pics that show clearly that the blue and grey are different.

there is no way that a blue would be placed in the showring here, although we do not belong to the FCI and do not have disqualifying faults as such.

[Leslie]

I know that the judge that confirmed Ellie at 1 year and at least one other judge were definitely aware that she is a Blue. They used unprejudiced decision-making to decide that she fell within an acceptable color. Ellie is light for a Blue, but she is most obviously a Blue.

I have no way to verify this as memories could be faulty, but I've had people in Europe who have been involved with Weim's 30 plus years say that they used to see this color.

I know the Weim community is very divided on the Blue issue. What pleases me about this opportunity in France is that she is judged without an automatic prejudice but rather based on her qualities.

If Ellie is bred to a Gray, the majority of the pups will probably be Gray as Ellie has both the Blue and Gray gene. I think she could bring new blood to France. Since a lot of people are unaware of the genetics of Blues, a Gray that comes out of Ellie will never be able to reproduce a Blue. It is not a recessive gene. If you'd like to know more about Blues, here is a link to 2 good articles.

The Blue Weimaraner
(The following discusses the longhair, but covers a lot of Blue info as well.)
The Longhair Weimaraner
Revisions to the AKC/WCA Standard - A commentary

Be sure to read both as they give a fuller picture together.

www.weim.net/twn/

[Wetdog]

I have left a post in: Bloodlines, Pedigrees and Genetics

This is an interesting discussion worthy of further investigation but getting to long for this particular section.

[anne]

I posted over there too. Interestingly, the Blue and Longhair controversy in the US were intermingled at one time. Some say that the LH's suffered from teh Blue issue, although I see it the other way around. Be sure to read the Elizabeth Wood article that Leslie posted. It's an interesting read for those that are wondering why the US hasn't accepted the LH's.

[Ilana]

Hi Leslie,

Welcome to the Forum,

My name is Ilana and i live in Israel,

I have 3 American males ,and i show them in Europe.

Nice to see you here.