Sit to stack.. how do you do it?

[jai]

Hi all,
I am trying to reteach an already trained behavior, unfortunately the desire to sit and wait (which I have been teaching him at home often) always takes over.
Case in point..since we came home last weekend I have been teaching 'sit' to Falko. He can do it on command with a verbal cue and a hand cue. I believe that Paulina was also doing this with him since he picked it up in no time. I use sit for him when he is waiting for his food, getting his leash and going to the door, waiting for a treat and greeting the girls and others when they come through the door at different hours of the day and night. I have been stacking him, Paulina showed us how at least 2x a day, but yesterday and today he wants to sit even when I try to hold his tail up. This afternoon when he sat I grabbed a treat and held it at his nose level so he had to stand to get it?? Is that the right thing for me to do? I have always rewarded him for his stack, but this is new.. Any help will be greatful!
Jai

[Alkemist]

Jai, I would imagine that it will help Falko incredibly if you teach him to just plain old stand up To do this, if he is in a sit, prepare to slip your left hand under his tummy, and at the same time, draw a treat forward in a straight line away from his nose. Tell him that this is a stand. Also vary the position that you ask him to take - don't always ask for the sit, teach him a down (best to do this by drawing a treat from the tip of his nose, down towards his chest, down in between his front feet, and forward). At the moment Falko is being real clever and he is anticipating what you are going to ask him to do.

Then when you want to stack him, use the same stand command, keeping him stood up with the hand under his tummy. Then when he is happy to stand (he understands what you want him to do ) start doing little things like moving back his back feet, or touching him underneath his jaw, or even touching his bits (in preparation for a show you guys ) , all helped with the bits of food in front of his nose. Its best to do these things in little stages at first, frequently, but not so often that your boy becomes bored.......

Hope that helps,
Nina
x

[Alkemist]

Oh, and the tail up bit - some dogs may take offence if there is a slight pull on the tail and they can sit down because of that - best to get him to stand still, then raise the tail, rather than holding the tail first - just what I think, someone else may have a different suggestion, be brave enough to try whichever you are comfortable with, one should work.....

Nina
x

[efica]

When Paulina showed me how to stack Kika it looked so simple...and she did it without food When I tried to stack her, there was no way that she would stand still...she moved around like crazy.
At the beginning praise(+a treat) Falko even when he stands still just for 2seconds.
Otherwise I did it like Nina described it.

Eva

[jai]

Eva, Yes Paulina showed me as well.. And we have been doing it everyday. but he is not bery cooperative. Well I gave him a break this weekend with the stacking and just let him get used to standing around. He loves to sit and like Nina said is anticipating it. So, I have been ignoring the regular sits and only praising the required ones. This morning I will start his stacking again and see if I get any better responses.

[jai]

Hi Nina.
Thanks for all the advice. I have backed off on treating (mostly with the good boy verbal and a pet) all the sits. And I will start to work on down. He has been walking around following me and each time I stop, he will sit. So I have stopped the petting for that too.. not completely, but just so that he will maybe go 10 feet from me. I know when I start the whole stay/heel thing he will have to do it then.. but he needs to be a pup for a few more days LOL. Hope your weekend was good.
jai

[anne]

Hi,
He may be a bit sensitive about his tail being touched. Also I think that dogs that learn to sit early on, default to that behavior when they are confused or stressed as that is a behavior that they have learned pleases you. Training daily on stacking is pretty boring for a pup and it might be stressing him out a little bit. I think you are on the right track by backing off a little bit. IMO stacking should be all about fun with a puppy... You'll get more sits the more you try to "force" him to stack, I think.
Anne

[jai]

Well Falko does know how to stack with minimal help.. He did it perfectly for the vet today when she was listening to his lungs. All she did was move him forward to her by his chest and he pushed his legs out and his chest out and stood there!! I was so pleased, (I can't do it at home, but he can show off for the vet!) But he didn't get a treat for it either. I wish I had a camera. but at least I know he has not forgotten, he is just fooling me for now.. On the ride home I told him I knew his secret..LOL Thanks for all the great advice. we will just keep working on it a little at a time.. Jai

[jai]

Well all, The whole stack thing has gone by the wayside a little for now. I am pleased to say that this upcoming week Falko and I will start hunters training with one of the German gentleman from the Weimaraner club . We will start working this week in water for 1 hour each visit (so far it will be 2x week, depending on our schedules) I have been focusing on heeling with Falko on his leash and collar, that I was given last time we met. Everything I am doing right now is sitting and heeling, sitting and waiting. All of our walks I stop for a few minutes, Falko will sit and I will not look at him, just stand there. He has gotten very good actually, and he can even begin to ignore the various children who wander by and feel the need to "touch" him. ;D He wags his tail, but he does not stand. When we are finished and we get home he is very tired. For those of you who are interested in knowing abou the German training for their dogs, I will post as much as I can.
We have a schedule that we will follow for the next 4 months or so, beginning with water training this week, then we will do some other stuff, at about 8 months old, Falko will be introduced to Wolfgang's 2 females, In March the wild pig season starts, I have a feeling we may learn how to hunt wild pig.. Wolfgang also told me he can't be babied at all, so everything I say to him is in my "stern mommy voice" he responds very well, the girls tell me that it always sounds like I am scolding him. Well, the end of all this training, to see if we pass will be in Sept, when Falko takes his first step to becoming a hunting/stud dog. Wow! Will we have a busy spring/summer!
jai

[Cheryl]

Jai, I taught (like I always have) Pojken the sit as soon as I met him...I should have remembered your post above...but I wanted him to be well mannered on the long trip home! Now, when we are practicing the "alert" and sniff for scent, he begins as Dolf taught him, but then he sits and waits for me to "give it to him" (which was only praise, no treats" so I too, will have to train the sit out of him:(
(recouperating from the bad cold and finally feeling like a person again) Cheryl

[jai]

Hi Cheryl,
Sorry to hear you have been a bit under the weather. The kids had the norovirus out here last month, but the sniffles and some of the cough from the newest virus is upon us. We have had the sore throats, the fevers, the flu-like symptoms.. but like a good mom, i send them to school when they can cope and keep them home when they can't. I too have had the sore throat and cough and so has Rich. I think we seem to keep passing it through the house..
As for the sit.. a bit of advice change the situation and then change the demands. It took me a while to do this and we are still working on it, but when we go to a new place to train or walk i start with a run first and then go to the task I want. He has learned to adjust. Good Luck! And welcome home again!
jai