Lymph glands

[wendy]

Hi

I was wondering if anyone could help or have come across anything similar.

3 weeks ago i woke up and my 21mth old bitch had a lump the size of a golf ball behind her jaw under her ear. I took her to the vets and they thought it wads an enlarged Lymh node and took a needle biopsy. 2 days later the gland on the other side started to swell.

The vet gave her antibiotics and the first gland reduced to the size of a sprout but the prescapular node came up as well. The biopsy came back as salivary gland which doesn't tie in.

After a weekof antibiotics and anti inflammatories the nodes behind her knees also became enlarged and bloods to show her cell count came back completely normal.

During all this she has lost her spark and got progressively quieter. Last thursday she vomited and refused food but on friday she was eating again.

A vet visit on Saturday revealed a tender abdomen but still no temperature. She vomited again on sunday night and agin tonight although she is eating well.

She is leaking urine occasionally and has been unpredicatable around my male for a few weeks, she has put him in stitches twice in the last 3 weeks.

Her last season was in January and was 2 months late.

I am awaiting the results of a urine test.

Has anyone come across anything like this because my vet is confused and hasn't got a clue about what is happening.

PS she is RAW fed and has no change in diet.

Wendy

[marjolein]

I'd go to a specialist Wendy. The glands are up for 3 weeks now without a diagnosis. That's too long.

[christina]

Wendy,

Just wondering ..... did you ever get to the bottom of this problem with your girl? What happened?

From your description this sure sounds like an auto-immune reaction.....

Christina

[wendy]

Hi

Holly was eventually spayed in mid April and it showed that she had early stages of pyometra. A part of the gland was removed and did not show anything sinister.

Her glands are still slightly larger than normal but did decrease in size considerably after the operation.

As she returned to her normal self demeanor wise after the op we think that the glands although not entirely normal were not the cause of the sickness.

One think that did come up though earlier in the year was that she does not clot blood properly however there appears to be no cause for this when haematology and test for VWD were carried out.

In light of your query re auto immune, i would say that Holly has severe injections reactions as well as the permantley slightly enlarged glands

Wendy

[christina]

Thanks for your reply, Wendy. I am glad that Holly is back to her old self and pleased that she did not test positive for VWD.

However, those swollen glands are worrying. From the way you described them in your first mail, I would not mind betting that this was an auto-immune reaction. They would not have found anything in the histology of the removed gland tissue, because it's not the glands that are diseased. The swelling of those glands were just the reaction of the immune system to whatever infection was going on inside her body.

What happens when you get an AI reaction is this --- something triggers the immune system into fighting some "intruder" (foreign bodies - bacteria, viruses, cancer cells, toxins, etc.). But unlike with a healthy, strong immune system, when you get an "auto-immune" reaction it means that the immune system does not "switch off" after it has dealt with the "intruder". It goes on and destroys healthy body tissue. Sometimes, and if it's a "first reaction" it is possible to stop this AI reaction with antibiotics, but usually you'd need steroids. My Thomas had severe Lymphadenitis of the inner lymph nodes as a reaction to his first puppy vaccination. The vets suspected a blockage and had to open him up, because he was fading away. He was not even 9 weeks of age at the time . For him this was the beginning of his auto-immune disease, but I did not know it then. He was given a heavy dose of antibiotics and for next 10 months everything was fine. He crashed with MMM (masticatory muscle myositis) after the next challenge to his immune system after a castration operation.

I am not a vet, and therefore the above (and below) are only my thoughts and opinion on what probably has caused Holly's glands to react in this way. I may be wrong. - But if I am right, then you need to be aware of the implications. Once auto-immunity is triggered, your dog will always be susceptible to relapses.... and I mean not necessarily a relapse of the extreme swelling of the glands. It could be anything at all. One pointer is that Holly seems to suffer from blood clotting problems, so keep a watchful eye on that. But the main concern is to keep 'triggers' at bay. "Triggers" come in 3 categories - vaccination, stress and toxins. If Holly were my dog, I would think twice about ever vaccinating her against anything - providing that she's been fully vaccinated before now. In all likelihood she will have immunity for life from previous vaccinations anyway, so any further jabs are not only unnecessary, but could do serious harm. But this has to be your decision, she is your responsibility. I can only recommend for you to look into the vaccination debate. If you need any information at all, just ask - I can give you heaps.
To avoid stress for the dog - well, it's not always possible, I know. Just keep it down as much as you can. Toxins, on the other hand, are everywhere.... in commercial dog food, in our households - but most of all, beware of chemical treatment for fleas/ticks etc. Spot-on's (and anything chemical that comes into contact with the dog's skin) for instance are a great risk for an immune compromised dog. There are natural alternatives for prevention. If a dog is infested, then of course, it's a different matter. Just applying common sense helps a great deal.

I don't want to scare you with all this Wendy. A great deal of damage could have been prevented with Thomas if somebody had warned me and told me about his lymphadenitis being a possible vaccine reaction. It is half the battle when you know and get a chance to prepare yourself. Holly might never get another reaction. But it would be prudent to keep her away from the triggers - just in case.

Best wishes to you both,
Christina