American HD reading

[Kobie]

This is a question to our American members.....

Sometimes, I see other HD readings than OFA on webpages....

For example : Pennhip 90th Percentile (.19, .27)

Can you explane me how to read this ?? What would be the OFA or European HD score for this example ?

[daniela]

Hi Kobie

I can't answer your questions directly but the PennHip website may help....

www.pennhip.org/

[Kobie]

daniela said:

Hi Kobie

I can't answer your questions directly but the PennHip website may help....

www.pennhip.org/

Daniela,

Would this mean HD/B in European countries ?

[daniela]

Hi

I don't really think you can take the scores/grades and make real accurate comparisons across the international schemes as each country will have different methods of scoring/grading to some degree.

For example, the KC/BVA does not grade, your dog is scored. Whilst you may be able to take that score and perhaps allocate a grade against another scheme, that wouldn't really be accurate because each scheme will have its own criteria.

To the best of my knowledge, I think Australia uses the same method for scoring as the UK but we would have a different breed average score because this would be dependent on the amount of dogs scored. So what may be 'good' score for us maybe a 'bad' score for them and vice versa.

I think you have to read the score/grade in accordance with the information notes available for that scheme and not make it fit into another scheme's methods.

PS: If I am correct in thinking we share similar/the same scheme, does Australia have a breed average score?

[Lois]

Hi Daniela
The breed average score for Weimaraners in Australia is 9.85.
I have just last week received 'Faith's ' hip score back and she is 2:2 = 4, Australian Grade 1 and International Grade B. On previous hip scores for my dogs there has been no Australian or International Grading indicated, but I used a different service this time and was interested to see the additional gradings.

Lois

[Kobie]

lrichter said:

I have just last week received 'Faith's ' hip score back and she is 2:2 = 4, Australian Grade 1 and International Grade B.
Lois

Lois,

So total score of 4 means Int. Grade B ? Can you explane till what total score means A, B or C ?
I'm happy our Belgian comittee changed their final scores into A1, A2, B1, B2, .... This gives a more detail score than just scores like A,B, ....

[Lois]

I have never had International scores on prevoius hip scores before so I am presuming that her total of 4 is equivelent to an International B. Of course the lower the score the better and I am very pleased that her score is so low.

Lois

[daniela]

Hi Lois

Which schemes are available in Australia? I believe the AVA is the same as the KC/BVA (?) so I am curious about the scheme which offers the Australian grade and the International grade.

I wonder whether in time, our scheme will give grades too.....

[Lois]

You can only have hips scored (to the best of my knowledge) through the AVA or through Dr Wyburn. It is the same grading system for both and i "think' it is the same as the UK. I will check with my reproductive vet this week when we AI one of our bitches. He used to live and work in the UK and is a dog breeder.
I have always used AVA (Australian Veterinary Association) in the past but sent the last lot to Dr Wyburn because the AVA has been behind the RSPCA in the anti-tail docking issue. Most breeders of traditionally docked breeds have withdrawn their support to the AVA and are using Dr Wyburn. Also AVA takes weeks to get the scores back while Wyburn will email them back within a a few days.
Lois

[greydove]

We have a vet in Sydney who scores his name is Graeme Allen, Im not sure but I know years gone by I used to use him (10 years ago) and he was 'known' to score harder than Wyburn but I would imagine we only have one 'system' of scoring and I guess with any vet doing a score its their expert opinion.

Im fairly sure BVA and AVA are the same.

Its a shame its not mandatory to hipscore in Australia, many breeders feel there 'isn't a problem' here...I guess you don't have a problem unless you score your dogs to see!

The OFA Registry in the USA whereby no breeding may take place unless a dog has an OFA boasts over 90% of our breed are now scored normal.

If you have a look at our website at this link www.greydove.com.au/health.htm it gives a comparation of Registries...I got this from the OFA site but cannot seem to locate if they still have it there.

Narelle

[Lois]

I agree with you Narelle on the attitude of some breeders NOT to hip score. I have had people say to me that they had contacted other breeders and were told that "they have never had any hip problems with their dogs so therefore they don't need to xray any of their dogs" What a short sighted attitude is that? I am sure they just don't want to part with the cash to pay for the xraying and scoring or find out that one of their money makers..opps sorry, bitches, has an unacceptably high score. I would rather know what the hip scores were so that if they were higher than the breed average, I could make sure that they were put to a suitable (low scoring) sire and therefore keep at an acceptable level.
'Faith' is a good example - her dam is an 11, (her parents were a 2 and a 4) and mated to Vader (3), so Faith's 4 is very acceptable. Had I not scored her mother and mated her to an unscored dog then it would be a possibility that they could have produced pups with a very high score.

Lois

[greydove]

HERE HERE LOIS...I agree completely with you and isn't it funny we too have people who tell us that other breeders say EXACTLY THE SAME THING you hear...

As Val has had to put young dogs down in her experience who have turned out dysplastic from very well bred dogs with high profiles ... its just not worth it and why should you not be able to tell your puppy buyers youve done the best you to prevent such a thing...

Narelle

[Kobie]

greydove said:

HERE HERE LOIS...I agree completely with you and isn't it funny we too have people who tell us that other breeders say EXACTLY THE SAME THING you hear...

As Val has had to put young dogs down in her experience who have turned out dysplastic from very well bred dogs with high profiles ... its just not worth it and why should you not be able to tell your puppy buyers youve done the best you to prevent such a thing...

Narelle

I totally agree !!!!!

[smokeybear]

I think the thing to remember is that just because both the sire and the dam have low hip scores does not mean that their offspriing are guaranteed to have low hip scores.

The other thing to remember that HD is multi factorial in other words there are envionmental factors that can affect the state of hips.

Most puppies IME are over exercised whilst very young and before their growth plates have fused whilst adults tend to be under exercised.

I have seen dogs of ALL breeds walking MILES at 12 weeks old! Madness.

I think hip scoring should be mandatory in all breeds and in all countries, sadly it is not in the UK and many breeders will tell new buyers that "there has never been a problem" :roll:

This is just guesswork and opinion, not fact.

For my part I fully endorse ALL relevant health checks in all breeds. My German bred GSD for example came from stock which has been hip scored for several generations, all sires must be haemophilia tested, they must all pass eye tests, as well as passing KK1 or KK2 and have the relevant work/endurance certificates.

Sadly one can breed any old dog with any old bitch in the UK.

I would NEVER purchase a dog from unhipscored parents as I expect my dogs to participate in strenouous activities for which good joints etc are essential

[Wetdog]

OFA grades hips as seen after the growth plates have fused, currently set at twenty two months of age. No Xrays will be read on dogs younger than that age.
Penn Hip was developed as a predictor of HD, and can be done as young as 16 weeks I believe.
I think that Penn Hip can be useful as a predictor, and should be. Especially since it is a common practice that many if not most dogs have already been awarded a championship long before they are even old enough to have xrays submitted for OFA reading.
Since OFA is looking at what is there and not trying to make predictions, I think it is more accurate and the prefered reading. If someone is looking for a way to predict the possiblity of HD showing up before a lot of money, time and effort are devoted to potential breeding stock, then Penn Hip has a place, however, if you as a breeder, are looking at potential matings, then you should place more emphasis on an OFA reading.
I'm not trying to be quibbly here--I think both have their place---and I'd like to see ANY xrays done in preference to none at all, even if you have them read by your local vet.
I don't know about Penn Hip--but I am pretty sure that anyone anywhere can submit Xrays for reading by OFA. Your local vet does the Xrays according to clinical guidelines set up by OFA, which are then submitted to OFA. OFA reads them, and issues a number that is in their database, anyone can view the results with the OFA number.
www.offa.org/history.html