Nuting and speying

[stelei]

Please forgive me if this isn`t the right place to post these thoughts of mine, but I couldn`t find any better place in the forum.

Ì`ve got the impression that a lot of Weimaraners in several counties are nuted or speyed more or less as default. If this is the case, I find this practise worrying.

First of all, I belive this hides undesired behavior in the population, as well as beeing highly debatable when it comes to the ethical side. Offcourse the animals beeing treated this way will never contribute to the breeding in the future, and this possible loss of talent and qualities also are of concern.

But my main point is the possibilities of hiding unwanted behavior and mentallitie, especially among the males, in the lines with many nuted animals.

Anybody else got an opinion on this?

[Peter]

hi stelei

i understand your point of view and agree that good talent is lost sometimes through castration or sterilisation, but we also have to put things in a larger perspective,
lots of people live in densely populated countries (belgium, holland, etc) or cities, often you will find quite a lot of dogs per 1 km², so you won't find many weeks of the year without bitches that are in heat...
nobody wants a dog who is not eating properly, wines 24/7 and can not concentrate on anything else, that is not fair both on the dog or the owners,
so sometimes dogs do get a happier life when they are castrated or sterilised, even if it sounds horrible to say

[grausturm]

I dont think neutering an animal will change its behaviour once it is established so I dont think this practice could be said to hide undesirable behavior. (for example if a dog has learnt to be dominant or aggressive with other dogs, neutering wont stop that behavior) However if you desex a puppy before it has learnt that behavior then the hormones that precipitate that behaviour are avoided and you have a more biddable pet in general.

[narelle]

I found this article which falls in line with alot of current research surrounding speying/neutering dogs too early and talk on other forums I am on. We currently recommend to people to allow a bitch to have a season before speying for the reasons in this article which is probably why so many people tell us about the 'big' dogs they see in the streets.

www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf

Narelle

[bromhund]

Hi Narelle
A very interesting article, and think all people should read this before making the decision to have there dog or bitch de-sexed.

From my experience I have always found dogs/bitches desexed to early they never grow up never mature in thier looks or in the head. We also encourage people to hold off as long as they can before they rush in to have the chop. But unfortunatley Vets in Austraila are very pushy about getting there dog or bitch desexed as ealry as 3months old. I belive there are some breeders in Australia now selling puppies at 8 weeks already desexed. I would be interested to see what effects this has on the dogs.

Suzanne

[narelle]

Hey Suzy, Im absolutely delighted to see that you agree with this article, I too have been told about people who are selling the babies at 8 weeks old already desexed and think its really terrible.

We have had people over the years come to see us and remark about the dogs they see walked in the street 'but much bigger than yours' and the penny dropped that this is probably the pet people whose vets suggest they are desexed at 6 months and the dogs keep growing; they never achieve puberty.

We now tell everyone just what happens to their dogs if they do go and desex early, likely they may not end up with a Weimaraner they had planned or with some deveopmental problems it seems.

But its like the tail dockings, the vets have alot to answer for and it most cases they are after the almighty $$$.

See you next week!

narelle

[grausturm]

Just in case there was any confusion with what I wrote - I did not mean to imply you desex your dog at such young ages as what this article was talking about. Forgive my loose use of the word puppy (ie refer to everyone who owns one of my dogs as a puppy owner - some of their puppies have long since died of old age). What I was trying to say is desexing the dog before it shows unwanted behaviours is more likely to prevent some behaviours occuring (I think this is probably supported by the article where it refers to more desexed dogs have aggressive behaviours - I believe these people desexed mature dogs because they had aggressive behaviours in the mistaken belief it would change them.
I do not advocate desexing dogs. We have lost a dog as part of a speying operation and it has never been something I would suggest to do lightly (desexing - there is a risk for all operations) and in my opinion desexing a dog is for cosmetic purposes!!! Responsible owners can prevent dogs from breeding almost always! and if they have a mistake then a responsible owner would take the right steps to rectify it in a responsible and caring way! If they cant be responsible then they shouldnt have dogs. And before any one else gets side-tracked I am not saying I am against desexing - just that I dont advocate it as a routine and that I dont support desexing puppies. In my case I have only ever seen or had puppy owners neuter dogs when it is fully grown (in body not brain - or it would have died of old age) ie after their first season in the case of bitches. So this has always been well after 12 months of age.

[marjolein]

I don't believe dogs grow taller, when they're desexed at a young age. What I do see in my work, is that dogs that ar desexed at an early age (b4 approx. 18 months), never mature, both mentally an physically. They never act like normal dogs.
I do desex my dogs though (only bitches btw), as soon as I decide not to breed with them anymore. It's been proven that desexed dogs live longer. You don't have pyo's anymore and the risk of diabetes is significantly smaller. But that's just IMHO.

[weimaranermama]

I agree with Marjolein. I have one bitch and she has C hips, so I cannot breed with her. She is desexed at the age of two years old and I hope she will be an very old lovely healthy lady.
For the dogs, I think, the owners must spend more time in their development and train them better, so that they listen. It's the easiest way to castraid the dogs and I am against it.
Gr. Ina