Coefficient of Inbreeding

[mike]

Does anyone have any idea of the "Weimaraner breed average" COI in various countries? What would be considered an acceptable/sensible (i.e. low risk) value in the UK?

On a slightly different note, aside from gossip how can you find out about known health issues in various lines?

Thanks,

Mike

[marjolein]

I'm working on the German lines Mike which I think makes a difference to the UK lines, since they have and have had to new blood quite easily. I'd say 60% of the dogs have an COI of 0%. The rest goes from 0.15 to 28.15%. I think 30% of these dogs stay below 10%.

The only way to find out about line problems is just asking. I know a lot of people think ignorance is bliss and won't tell you anything, there might be one who is honest and will tell you.

[marjolein]

Oh forgot to add that these numbers come from my database which has 6500 dogs in it.

[mike]

Thanks Mar thats interesting, finally pushing Harleys pedigree back into the 11th + generations (starting to get into the original UK dogs) but it is time consuming, so many dogs with each new generation (but obviously a lot are repeated which thankfully makes it quicker!!)

What would you consider to be an unacceptably high value? (other than if you were trying to "fix" a particular feature)

[marjolein]

Well, that's a difficult question really. Since I'm into "outcrossing", the chances are big that mine will end up with a COI of 0%. But there's more to it than that. For example the English stud I just used. He has an COI of 2.31%, which is very acceptable to me. His dad has 3.91% and the rest is outcross. His mum though, has an COI of 21.09%. Pretty high if you ask me and I don't really like these matings, unless you really know what you're doing.
Because of this high number, I really tried to get info on these lines about health issues and stuff like that. Like I already said, most people will keep their mouth shut about problems, but I tried anyway and nothing showed up really. That and the reason I liked the looks of the dogs coming from this particular line and the fact that there is an FT champion in it, I decided to go for it.
As you can see, it is difficult to give an answer to your question, but if I had to, I would say 5% is the max. This percentage is used in Friesian horses as well. Like 50 years ago, only 5 Friesians were still alive and they needed to be very careful to prevent them from extinction.
There are a lot of Friesians again, but they are really careful breeding them still, since there is such a narrow basis. They prefer a COI of 5% or lower. This is where I get my number from.

[mike]

When your working out your COI Mar, how many generations do you include? The more generations I add the higher the number seems to go, mainly due to tight line breeding in the early days. (I think I have complete generations upto 8 and then it's a bit patchy, presumambly it is a good idea only to use complete generations in the calculations?)

In your example of horses, surely if you go back (and include in the calculation) to the generation including the original five horses it must be nigh on impossible to get to 5% as all the current horses are the offspring of only five horses?

Sorry if i've misunderstood something, this is all quiet new to me. I haven't looked at genetics since A-levels 16 years ago, funny how it is all so much more interesting when you know the "subject"! ;D

[marjolein]

I have never looked at geneticis, too dull for my likings. And since I'm a lazy cow, I let the computer do the work for me Mike. It's all in that programm I use and I've tried to find out how many generations it uses, I cannot really figure it out. Maybe it uses every dog in that particular pedigree, but not sure about it.
About the horses. Yes, it is possible to have an COI <5%. Don't ask me how though, I'm not really into horses anymore.
Not much help unfortunately.

[mike]

Thanks for looking Mar

You use Zooeasy don't you? I'll download the trial version and see if it figures out the COI in the same way as the software I am using (WinCanis Pedigree, which is free BTW)

"I have never looked at geneticis, too dull for my likings" ;D

As a mechanical engineer, genetics is a bit more interesting than most of the stuff I have to do for a living!

[marjolein]

Let me know if the COI is the same, curious about it!
It's a shame though, if you download the trial version, you can only enter like 10 dogs in it.....

[Sylvia]

The version 5.04 of ZooEasy Calculates the COI over all generations behind.
With an earlier version it only goes back till the 10th generation.
If you do not have DOB's of all the dogs back in the line it can be incorrect sometimes.

[mike]

Thanks Sylvia, adding DOB info or the dogs will be a pain, but I guess i'll have to go through it at some point!

[christina]

Mike,

Can't contribute to the 'Weim breed average' - that discussion is way over my head .

But if you want to make a start in finding out about known health issues from the horses mouth ..... the two Weims in my life have got plenty to contribute. And it might be of interest to you that both my Weims are/were pretty close descendants from "THE" UK stud dog of the year(s) 1994 through to 1999 ... with the slight alteration of year 1997, where one of his grandsons took the trophy..... who is co-incidentally Kimber's grandfather.

Whether it's the actual parent or the close inbreeding which is responsible for my boys health problems, is the burning question. Until the DNA markers responsible for the mode of inheritance are found, nobody can say for certain. Meanwhile I am/have been dealing with my dogs auto-immune issues for the past 10 years.

I am a great believer in open health registries and if you were interested, I am more than happy to give you a run-down of health issues on my two dogs plus their pedigrees.

Christina

[Weims]

Hi Christina, I am very interested as I am currently looking for a stud dog and am finding different problems in different lines. if you want to e mail direct (I wouldnt want you to get had up for posting on open forum) I would appreciate info about your boys problems and their pedigrees. [e-mail]

Thanks
Lynn

[tasha]

Mike if you have any trouble finding the older pedigrees for your dog let me know and I might be able to help I have alot more info available than has been posted into the database on the forum, sadly my copy of that database got wiped out when the computer guys came so I am having to slowly rebuild it again :-(

[christina]

Hi Lynn,

Have emailed you privately - hope you've got it.

Christina

[tasha]

can you forward it to me too please... am in the same boat thanks

[christina]

Hi Tasha,

I'll be happy to send you the info - but I need your email addy - would you pm me please on [e-mail]

Thanks,
Christina