The Fading Puppy Syndrome

[Irena]

Here is an article I came across a while ago. It is about the "fading puppy syndrome" - deaths of seemingly healthy pups in the litter during their first weeks.

www.dogsworldwide.com/articles/vb2.htm

[silvestre]

I spoke to a breeder last year who had experience of fading puppy and they believe that taking a blood sample from the father of the pups and giving a plasma transfusion and then synulox will save the pups. However the father has to have full immunity from diseases and should be regular vaccinated. The vets that perform this are at Swanbridge Veterinary surgery.

Has anyone had to use this procedure on Weim puppies?

Rachel

[christina]

Hello Irena,

Hope you don't mind me reviving an 'old' thread.... I am still ploughing my way through reading all the mails on here - it's fascinating, and I am learning lots )

As I have said in my intro, I don't know much about breeding, but I am always willing to learn. Since I am not a breeder, I don't know much about 'fading puppy syndrome' either and I found this article by Val Brown quite informative. However, I do have a few issues with the author, because some of her suggestions to my mind go against common sense.

For instance, she says ......

It soon became apparent that the syndrome was in fact caused mainly by bacterial infection or rather an imbalance of bacteria....

....and she goes on explaining how this imbalance can be treated - so far, so good. Yet later in her article she goes on ....

For suspect bitches I usually start a course of synulox immediately stopping two days after mating....

..... which makes me ask - why on earth is she mating a bitch she suspects to be suffering from an immune mediated condition ?? - because that is what a bacterial imbalance comes down to. I do have a real issue with that. It is one thing to remedy a condition that has arisen without prior knowledge - and to that end I can understand giving prolonged courses of antibiotics to a lactating bitch and the newly born pups. But to mate a suspect bitch, or/and to give a course of antibiotics to a prospective stud dog ..... (If I am suspicious that the bitch is carrying an infection I will give my dog a short course of synulox tablets) IMHO is unacceptable and unforgivable. What IS this woman thinking of It's not the health and safety of her dogs or unborn pups, that's for sure.

I also try to breed from a chosen bitch as early as possible and finish her breeding program in one go, for example if I decide to have two or three litters from one bitch I would like to start at around fifteen months and have all her litters on successive seasons.

With this too, I have an issue ..... to my mind that goes against common sense. But I'm not a breeder, and I would not be able to argue sensibly the pro's or cons. To me it just sounds wrong somehow.

I have been asked if stress perhaps can cause an imbalance. I do not believe this to be a cause of the imbalance occurring.....

Now, with this she is wrong ! ... or rather, she is technically correct, because she used the word "cause" and not "trigger". The answer as to why bacterial imbalances occur, is because the immune system is low and weak. And a weak immune system could be (and all too often is) due to mutated, deleterious genes. Stress can trigger a weak immune system to get confused and go haywire. The outcome of that would be an auto-immune disease.

What are other member's thoughts on all of the above?

Christina

[marjolein]

I do agree with you on the fact that you should only breed with healthy dogs. No question about that.
I do agree on the age thing too. I don't think you should breed from bitches under 2 years of age (preferably 2.5 if you ask me). I do think they need these years to mature and it wouldn't be fair to breed with a dog that's not completely matured yet.
There is so much written about fading puppy syndrome on the internet, but most articles say it's not sure yet, what can be causing this.
Yes, stress can cause an imbalance, but as long as we're not sure about the cause of this dissease, we cannot say whether stress is a trigger or not.
I do know though, that stress can trigger Herpes dissease, but this is something else.

[syrinx]

When I was first in dogs, Fading puppy was everywhere in the dog news, it seemed. My understanding is that is Herpes in the bitch. Treatment that I have read about is when the first pup shows signs, heat them, and keep them hot.
Stress may trigger the Herpes virus as it does in people, but being a virus, it has to be present first. It can't cause it.
In Australia, people don't really breed before 24 months. There are rules about when certain breeds can be bred, such as giant breeds, brachiacephalic breeds etc. There are also rules about how often a bitch can be bred, no more than twice in 18 months. If there is another litter in that time, you have to explain why and if they don't like the reason, or you don't have a good one, they won't register the litter. So here she couldn't do that. It takes too much out of the bitch. Gee, I bet she wouldn't do that to herself!!! LOL!
Wendy

[syrinx]

Most people here have the bitch 'swabbed' checked for infection before breeding, and lots have learned the hard way that if a girl says no, there is usually a reason. But then sometimes they say no to one and want to pick their own, so I am not sure how you tell the difference.
Wendy

[christina]

***.....if a girl says no, there is usually a reason. But then sometimes they say no to one and want to pick their own, so I am not sure how you tell the difference.....

Hi Wendy,

Maybe the answer lies in here....

MHC complexity is an excellent example of the importance of biological diversity—not only among species but also within them. All naturally reproducing species will avoid or significantly limit inbreeding. (For the purposes of this article, the term inbreeding includes what dog breeders refer to as linebreeding.) Studies in mice have shown that females, given a choice, show significant preference for mates with dissimilar MHCs, thereby conferring offspring sired by those males with more flexible immune systems. Even in humans a study has indicated females have some degree of preference for males with different MHCs, though no one argues that there are a plethora of other considerations that strongly influence a woman’s mate choice. No studies have been done on dogs to date, but anecdotal reports of bitches that refuse to mate with closely related dogs are not unusual. In an inbred individual, the chance that both parents have passed on identical genes within the MHC increases. This situation diminishes the body’s capability to mount an effective immune response. Such dogs are more prone to infections and are more likely to suffer autoimmune disease or allergies.

This extract was taken from the following article on breeding - very long article, but brilliant. I have posted this link before in another thread, it's well worth taking the time to read through it.
www.ashgi.org/articles/immune_rising_storm.htm

Christina