Pee & Poo management

[Leslie]

OK, coming to the end of my first breeding experience. I read and read and think I overall did a good job, but there's one thing that I wonder how I could improve. Pee & Poo management! The books make it sound so easy. Keep your pen clean, they advice. The books show nice little pens divided into sleeping and potty areas and make it sound easy.

I nearly made a career out of pee & poo clean up and it still could quickly become a nightmare. 2 little poops at the edge of the pen with 10 puppies charging back & forth through it and then jumping on the x-pen, on each other can become a disaster in 1 minute flat. Newspapers laid down are considered wonderful fun to drag around and tear up.

As they got older (6+ weeks), I had to get up during the night to take them outside or the pen would be wall to wall pee & poop - tracked into their crates and smudged on each other.

Later, with good weather and as they started learning to go outside, I put their crates (doors open) on the veranda with the door cracked enough for them to get out into a small enclosed area to eliminate. This mostly worked, but still, there would be a couple of pees and maybe a poop near the door - and as I would come to the door to open it, they would all be jumping up and down in this and it was soon a mess.

Is this just part of the experience, or can you give me advice on how you handle it? How is your puppy pen set up, or do you have a kennel? How is your kennel set up if so?

Thanks, Leslie

[marjolein]

Join the pee and poo club Leslie, hehehe. I don't think there is another solution for this problem, then to clean up a million times a day.

[Lois]

This is the hardest part of rearing a litter. For the first 4 weeks my babies are confined to our large laundry. I use a doggy door across the doorway so that they can see and hear things happening in the house but are confined to that area. I cover the floor with newspapers and change the papers every time they are soiled. Overnight is a problem however and the first clean of the morning is at times nauseating LOL At about 4 -5 weeks (depending on the weather) I start leaving them on our covered large porch during the day. I have found that if they are given a big enough area they will do their poos and pees away from their bed. But not always! At about 6-7 weeks I put the puppies into the kennels where they have indoor and outdoor covered areas and a large wooden kennel inside the kennel building to sleep in. I find they will start to do their business in the outdoor area very quickly. If given enough room they soon learn.

Hard work I know and people are surprised you are not upset when it comes time to let them go to their new home.

Lois

[Leslie]

So do you put the pups in individual kennels or together in a kennel?

Yes, I had no problems with them going potty away from their beds, but they usually went potty along the front of the x-pen and when I came up to the pen they would run to me and run back and forth tracking it around. I tried all sorts of configurations, small space, large space. If the space was too large they still pottied all over it and then I had a bigger space to clean up.

I think the key next time is to have an entrance to their pen that is the opposite side of their potty area. Towards the end, I made a space in the old stone stable attached to our house. I made a temporary dog run out a door and put their sleeping crates in the stable and made an entrance at the side of the area with the crates. This worked pretty well. This set up was possibe when the weather got nice as I could leave the door open to the dog run. It also got easier as the pups got older and they understood better to go outside, but not always! And those few incidents could become a mess quickly.

It also worked well when I could put them in a largish exercise pen in the yard.

I know puppies will always be a lot of work, but I'd rather spend more time playing with them and testing them than mopping pee ;-) so I'm going to be doing a lot of research to kennel practices. If anyone has any good references, please pass them on. Thanks!

[marjolein]

Mine did their poos and pees in a special area and as long as I came downstairs very quietly every morning, I could lock them in the whelping box before they could run through the mess. Certainly helped!!!

[Leslie]

I've run across an idea that I like from another pointing dog email group. One person made a whelping box with a potty area that is raised off the ground and the potty area is this Farmtek flooring: tinyurl.com/j7wpk so pee passes straight through and it can be hosed off daily. This seems like an idea worth pursuing. I think I'd do something like this after 3 weeks. (his is an entire unit with an enclosed, heated, sleeping box and the entire unit is on stilts out doors. I'm not sure I'd do it exactly like that- but I can adapt the idea.)

The other thought I have is that it's not a bad idea to have the potty area opposite from the place where you approach the puppies. That way, when they run to you it's NOT through the poo!

Also after 4 weeks old, weather permitting, keep them in an outdoor puppy pen during the day (with shade, shelter and not if it's too hot or too cold.)

[mader]

Hello all:
Morning is the hardest. I would take all the pups from the pen and place them into a clean smaller portable pen, then I would clean the big pen up. I used one side with papers and the other with blankets, they tended to use the paper and leave the blankets clean. Then all went back into the big pen and now the little pen was a mess, after cleaning that, it was time to begin the daily work of rolling papers as they potied. It is truly an ongoing task. If you hold constant vigil, the only really bad time is morning. Of course right after the 4-6 feedings per day are a trip as well :0)
Either way, I love caring for puppies...
Marylou

[Weims]

If weather is fine I let puppies into the garden (supervised by other half of course) whilst I clean the pen out. I use wood shavings as it soaks up the pee and it seems to hold the poo together so it can be shovelled up easily. puppies dont seem to get covered in poo. I then shovel up several times a day and it smells nice when you put down clean shavings and in the mornings it doesnt smell too bad either.

Lynn

[Leslie]

Yes, I would put pups in another pen to clean out their pen, but the main thing was them running through the poo to get to me in the morning, so next time, I'm going to have the "greeting" area away from the poo area! Papers didn't work for me. They thought it was great fun to carry them around and tear them up. The wood shavings is an idea to consider.

[Wetdog]

Irena from Fred's PC:

I'm in need of advice too right now. All was well up until now, one of us stays with the pups almost constantly when they're awake, watching them or playing with them or feeding them, so if they poop, we immediately take it away. BUT now they're getting big, and while poop is not a big problem when we remove as soon as it's hit the floor, pee is different. They put out a LOT now!!! Newspapers are great, but they get soaked very, very fast, and have to be either removed or covered with fresh ones. Is this the only way to do it? (That fancy flooring seems great but I'm not sure it's available here)

I just put down wood shavings for them tonight and they get everywhere - in the bowls, etc. Everyone has also tried to eat them. I have used them before on puppies I fostered and it was great, but for some reason this time it doesn't seem to make sense.

I'd appreciate some advice very much.

[casadejuno]

Hi Irena,
we used to use newspapper as well but it was discusting
since 2 years ago we use special sterilised wood shavings and its the best! Its really easy to clean and the puppies are always clean and dry. We have to put some bricks on the door so it doesn't come out very much. you can look for it in stores that sell things for horses as it is used by horse breeders a lot. even if the puppies eat it a litle it is not bad for their health because it almost has no dust. its the same as they use for mouses also but in bigger packs.

here are some photos from our Puppy house

[daniela]

wetdog said:

Irena from Fred's PC:

I'm in need of advice too right now. All was well up until now, one of us stays with the pups almost constantly when they're awake, watching them or playing with them or feeding them, so if they poop, we immediately take it away. BUT now they're getting big, and while poop is not a big problem when we remove as soon as it's hit the floor, pee is different. They put out a LOT now!!! Newspapers are great, but they get soaked very, very fast, and have to be either removed or covered with fresh ones. Is this the only way to do it? (That fancy flooring seems great but I'm not sure it's available here)

I just put down wood shavings for them tonight and they get everywhere - in the bowls, etc. Everyone has also tried to eat them. I have used them before on puppies I fostered and it was great, but for some reason this time it doesn't seem to make sense.

I'd appreciate some advice very much.

I do what you are doing. They pee and then the paper is so soaked that it tears so I just lay down new sheets.

I don't have any experience of wood shavings, I'm afraid!

[casadejuno]

Hi Daniela
I was a bit reluctant at first also. ours friends that breed Cocker Spaniels used it for a long time and they kept telling us to try because the newspappers could also make alergic reactions on the puppies because of the ink. well, since the day I started to use it I thank them a lot for insisting lol. you just have to make sure its sterilised shavings and that has no dust.

[tasha]

you can get the shavings from suppliers of horse products thats where we get ours from, you can also get a shredded paper type as well but I haven't used that.

[Cheryl]

Its the colored ink on the newspaper you have to be careful about. And for mice, the pine shavings are best if I remember right, otherwise they have a shortened lifespan from the other wood shavings.

I like what Rute and Tasha are saying about the sterilized shavings, but yes, when I tried the shavings in the cat boxes, it was everywhere!

I think the easiest, Fred, for now would be your newspapers, but take out the colored ink parts and shred in long strips by hand about an inch or two wide. It is working well for the cat boxes and is very easy to clean up.

Still baking and cooking in between??? LOL You and Irena must kiss every single one between the ears on top the head for me... Pojken is fast turning into a pony...

[marjolein]

Oh poor Fred and Irena, I know what you're going through....
I used papers as well but yes, it was a pain! A friend of mine used wood shavings as well, but only in a small corner where they could poo and pee. You wouldn't believe it, but the pups got used to that very quickly and all he had to do was to clean that area. Good luck!

[weima]

I have used shavings & I think they are very good & do seem to keep the pups clean & smell nicer although you have to be careful that they don't block your drains up.

tasha said:

you can also get a shredded paper type as well but I haven't used that.

I have also used shredded paper for about 15 years & it really is the best stuff. When I first put it down, the pups love to jump around in it & flatten it

[Irena]

Thank you very much for the advice and responses! Much appreciated. We're back to newspapers now...

[Rachel]

Years ago we used to keep the puppies in kennels, but since then changed to keeping them always in the house. I have tried shredded paper, but they ate it. I have tried wood shavings, but they would get it into their eyes and we had eye infections. Once removing the horse wood shavens the eyes cleared immediately. So we ended up using newspaper.
Obviously I would not want shavings in the house, so we just use newspaper and we get on very well with this. What I try to do is make sure they have a basket to get into so that they have to get out to go onto the paper. I put the paper down thick onto a plastic sheet to protect my floor. Its building plastic, black plastic. But yes, its a horrid job, and one poo can be smeared everywhere. I have a litter at the moment, and mum is still clearing up after them but another weeks time it will change and I will then have to get the newspaper out and put down.

As soon as the pups are at that stage though of charging around, they go outside into a pen outside the back door on the patio.

Also when 6 weeks old we feed them away from the house in the garden, so the moment they have fed, the poop and wee and we pick it up off the grass and they can come back to the pen. We only then get smelly paper first thing in the morning which I can stand.

Oh the joys of mother hood! tee hee.....I can smell my babies as I type, gag! Mother is cleaing them up gag.....Who said breeding is easy, I reckon we get cast iron noses that can with stand anything. ha ha.


Rachel