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Post by Jaeger on Sept 11, 2005 20:41:34 GMT 1
Reading the results on the big C.A.C.I.B shows in Poland and Luxembourg.I asked myself : Are they giving the results of all the dogs/bitches or only the dog/bitches who are given an "ëexcellent". As a frequent visitor of dog shows, I cannot imagine that the dogs that are coming to the shows all are of "excellent" quality. I know there are foreign judges who want to be popular and give the whole bunch an "excellent", only to be asked to come back again. So what is than the qualification "excellent" worth. Aren't there no more dogs/bitches with the qualification "very good", "good" or "moderate". I have seen them, but does the judge dare.
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Post by marjolein on Sept 12, 2005 9:08:32 GMT 1
Have you seen the results of the Belgian Clubmatch???
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Post by Fala Love'a on Sept 12, 2005 16:17:20 GMT 1
HI
At CACIB Show in Warsaw - July 2005 (where not many weims entered because this show always takes place in April but this year it was later because of John Paul II death and many breeders had planned other shows for this time and didn't come) 62,5 % weimaraners were "excellent", 31,3 % "very good" and 6,25 % "good". At Sopot Show 66% were "excellent", 33% were "very good". So I think that it is not true that all dogs get the highest mark (excellent). About 1/3 of entered weims are "very good" what in case of males means that they are not enough good quality to be even a stud.
The other thing is that we have/had very nice weimaraners in Poland, please let see the results from: World Show 2000 (World Winner After Nani's Knight Rider, Res.WW Gunalt Spritz, Junior WW Nani's American Yankee) World Show 2001 (WW Nani's James Robert) World Show 2003 (WW Benita Motyczynski Las, WW Apel Udane Lowy), Euro Show 2000 (EW After Nani's Knight Rider, EW Afera Motyczynski Las, Junior EW Dante Wagner A-Awa) Euro Show 2003 (EW Raxi Bona Jantarowa, Res.EW Argenteus Brave Strong Lady) Euro Show 2005 (the result avaible at this site).
All these weimaraners were bred or own by polish breeders and they give/gave often excellent progeny which is shown now. I agree that sometimes judges are "too good" but it is not that CACIB or excellent mark is worth nothing....I think :)
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Post by Jaeger on Sept 14, 2005 13:58:11 GMT 1
Yes Marjolein I have seen the results of the Belgian Clubmatch. I don't believe that there was only 1 dog/bitch which had the qualification "Very good", knowing the entries of a clubmatch.
Sorry Flalovea, I cannot agree with you, saying that in case a male gets a "very good" he isn't good enough quality to be a stud! Maybe he can produce better offspring than a so called Champion.
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Post by Sylvia on Sept 14, 2005 14:22:06 GMT 1
Sorry Flalovea, I cannot agree with you, saying that in case a male gets a "very good" he isn't good enough quality to be a stud! Maybe he can produce better offspring than a so called Champion. Indeed, it is also the combination who makes the puppies. It is not only the male... And the results also depend on the judge.
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Post by Fala Love'a on Sept 14, 2005 16:15:14 GMT 1
I think you did not uderstand what I wanted to say....
I totally agree that both parents are resposible for the "quality" of their progeny and that "not Champion" can give great pups! Shows and hunting trials are done to pick "the best" males and bitches, that's why there is an excellent mark and others lower marks. This is the way to select the best dogs/bitches.
In Poland if the male is going to be a stud he has to get at least 3 x EXCELLENT mark and a judge by giving him "very good" or "good" says "I do not think that this male should be a stud because he has some quite serious faults". Of course on next show under another judge he can get a different mark...
Maybe you have some other rules under which a dog can be a stud but here in Poland it is like I wrote....
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Post by Sylvia on Sept 14, 2005 16:29:04 GMT 1
OK and does that 3x Excellent also count for males you want to use from outside the country?
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Post by Fala Love'a on Sept 14, 2005 17:04:22 GMT 1
The male I can use must be a stud (confirmed by the Kennel Club he is registered in). So if in the country he is registered in all dogs can be studs - (regardless of show/hunting results) I can use every male, the same if in his country only dogs with 3 x excellent marks and I prize from Hunting Trials can produce pedigree litters I can use only such males.
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Post by Jaeger on Sept 14, 2005 17:18:46 GMT 1
Aren't you throwing away in Poland than a conciderable number of dogs, who have no 3 x excellent and a first prize on hunting trials. In this way you are limiting your breedstock from what already is a not to big breed. Or do you go to "studs" from other countries?
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Post by Fala Love'a on Sept 14, 2005 17:41:18 GMT 1
The show rules concern all breeds in Poland (hunt rules are for dogs from VII FCI group).
About two years ago all bitches (from VII group), regardless of hunting results, could produce pedigree litters if they get at least 3 x very good mark at shows. Today these rules are more strict and girls also have to pass Hunting Trials for Young Dogs and receive there at least III diploma. The number of weimaraners here is slowly growing up, we have more and more kennels. The number of polish breeders use polish studs but some go abroad. Do we "throwing away valuable males".......it is hard to say....but polish weims often win at shows in Europe... :)
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