official or not?

[Meander]

Hi all,

I have a question to you about official tittles. I've noticed more and more people use Vice or Res WW/EW/ etc (esp the winner kind of shows, but also on other -specialty- shows).
Until this time I never used them when my weims 'just' became runner up, only the full tittles.
Because to my understanding the only official Res is Res CAC/ ResCACIB. In the group en best in show you'll have a resBIG/resBIS or/= BIG2/BIS2.
But on the winner kind (worlddogshow/winner (xx)/ European Winner etc I just see that the following tittle kan be earned, e.g. winner Amsterdam W. (yr) or JW (yr).
So have I missed something in the regulations of the show and/or FCI?
If it's not official shouldn't and couldn't we honour the true winners more and upgrading even more their tittles, by just let them use the titles. I do not want to offend people, because ofcourse I also was tempted to use this for my weims, but instead of copying this, I first really want to know what's correct and what's not.

Hope you guys can help me out here to try to understand more about this.

Thx!

[cummel]

Hi Leonor,

CAC(T) and CACIB/CACIT and also the reserve of those are FCI official, but they no titles. Real FCI titles are the championships of beauty and work. The national kennel clubs must be members of the FCI. If not, those national titles are not FCI legal.
There are some more national working titles but I don't know exactly which ones are FCI official.
Hope I see this right, correct me if not!

I don't think that everybody who give all "winnings" with dog information claims all those "winnings" to be FCI titles. If he/she decide that it is necessary to describe the value of his dog, its ok for me.

Dorit & Cummel

[Meander]

Hi Dorit & all,

Don't get me wrong, ofcourse I would love to add them as well.
It's not that it ahs to be FCI it also can be a show title of a specific show. But I'm curious if this vice/res winners tittles are based on anything official or if it's just something has been added by own interpretation.
If that's the case, that's an answer to, I'm trying to understand and ofcourse if one wants to express this like this, that's everyones own business I think.
On the other hand I do'n't see this kind of thing with huntingtitles or achievements happening. So I'm so curious about this. Maybe I'm the only one with this question, but when I was just starting showing it allways appeared to me as something official. And now learning more and more I don't have the answer to this.

Thx for your quick answer and insights Dorit, as allways.

[cummel]

Hi Leonor,

I think I got your point...

Yes, some "reserve" titles are official. You can win a show title with a res.CACIB too, for example on Brussels Dogshow you get "Brussels Winner", for the CACIB it is: "Belgian Winner".

I can imagine that it might be the same with other "reserve" titles as for example "res. WW". To be sure about all titles of a certain show you must consult the website of that show or inscription papers. For sure you will get a sort of certificate about it.

Have a nice day,
Dorit

[szarasfora]

Nov 27, 2008 14:17:35 GMT 1 Meander said:

Hi all,
If it's not official shouldn't and couldn't we honour the true winners more and upgrading even more their tittles, by just let them use the titles.

I agree.
I don't understand why people name their dogs Vice-World/Europe Winners (for example) when they get only Res. Cacib. There are no such titles and putting the Vice "titles" before the dog's name is cheating for people who are not aware of those FCi titles.

[cummel]

just checked out the upcoming WW 2009 in Bratislava, there is no official "res.WW" title indeed.

www.worlddogshow2009.com/titles.html

[djinn007]

The official titles are those who can be homologated and written on the pedigree.

Some are nationale recognised, other are recognized by the FCI, thus international. The international titles in Beauty : the championship of countries (taking part of FCI) and in Work : the championships in field-trials.

for eg : the german titles : VGP, HZP, HN, RS, ... are not recognized in Belgium and in France so this titles disappeared from the pedigree .

the French work title : Trialer / Trailer is recognized internationaly and is written on all pedigrees, even in foreign countries (I have 3 belgian weimies that are Trailer in France, this titles are written on their pedigrees and also on the puppies' pedigrees)
the TAN, cotation of dogs like Elite, Recommandé, ... are only national and are not recognized thus those elements disappeared also from the pedigrees.

The title of Belgian Winner is official and written on the pedigree.
The title of Brussels Winner is gained but not written on the pedigree. I can say it because my stud Djinn is Belgian Winner and my Bitch Eidi is Brussels Winner so I Have asked it to our Centrale Canine.

Eleonore
and the gang des Brumes des Bois

[Kobie]

We live unfortunately in a country that accept very limited titles on our dogs pedigrees ! Rules of the Belgian kennelclub "St.Hubertus".

Jr Belgian winner, Jr world winner or for example Amsterdam winner, these are also titles with International recognisation, but not for our "Belgian" kennelclub, however they are FCI approved.
VJP, HZP and VGP are also gained in official German tests, but not official for our pedigrees, however these are quality titles. It's a pity. Trialer is also no championship, but recognised. Where can we find the logica ! I think its a pity that other worktitles, like the German ones, dissapear in our dogs pedigrees, as our breed is original German isn't it ? We don't have Field champions in Belgium. If I'm not wrong, the German worktitles are recognised by the Dutch kennelclub.
Only the TST (Canine good citizen) is also recognised by our kennelclub and thus also for our puppies.

Anyhow, our kennelclub make no point of using the not accepted titles for your kennel. I know, because I have asked them. They said: "You can use them to show people what your dog achieved, no problem".

[Meander]

It's a pity the Belgium Kennelclub doesn't accept a lot of titles (work or show related), however most of the titles are recognised by a country (where you achieved it) or in the particular regulations of a specific show. I think this is a problem in more countries unfortunetaly.
Like indeed WW/JWW, W/JW, EW/JEW, Dorit as you saw yourself there in Bratislava there is no res/vice WW or JWW to gain. At the winner kind and specialty shows I've attended I did not see that either.
So that, consedering the replies, is probably the answer, there are no vice or res WW etc..
But more and more I see this be used, because I assume that a lot of people like myself before, think this is correct and pherhaps just copy this.

So again hope to honour the true winners more, I've been rewarded quite some runners up myself, but it's very simple, my dogs didn't win that day. So just make a big bow for the other one. Believe me it gives a lot of room in your heart. And ofcourse the encouragement to train, work even harder if you really want that tittle And next time you do win and than it stays even more special. ANd someone else is runner up

[weimaranermama]

Leonor, your time will come. Some times you have to be patient and wait till your dogs are some older.
See you sunday?

[Meander]

Hi Ina,

Think you misunderstood, this is not about me in that way, as you now I have a few winner tittles with my dogs, ofcourse I hope to earn more in the future. But that will depend on the quality of my dogs (how indeed they develop) and ofcourse of the competition etc.Which is luckely most of the times quite high, so than the wins are even more precious. And makes the losses easy to wear gracious.

However I saw a lot of people using vice and res titles on shows were these kind of titles can't be earned. So the question was if I missed something in the regulations or is this something which was created on the way the past few yrs. Because no one tells me otherwise, I assume it is the last thing.
So for me personally a reason to not add it with information on my dogs. If if was something offical ofcourse I've would have added it in a heartbeat, don't doubt about it, for just being proud of our dogs as allways.
What others do it's up to them ofcourse. I want to thank evryone for their response this made it more clearer to me at least, pherhaps it an ignorant question from my part. But I've allways learned their are no stupid questions. So triggered by coming weekend, this question which I have for somewhile popped up again in my head.

Ofcourse I'll be there Sunday and really looking forward to see other great dogs, talk about are beloved breed with enthousiastic breedlovers, studdogowners, cobreeders and other dogpeople. And above all: have fun! I expect a very high quality of dogs from Holland, but also from abroad, so that will be great and a very difficult competition.

I have some help with me, so I'll try to get movies of all classes and variety, for the ones interested afterwards.

[calla]

I know this is an older thread..... but here is my little input.
My female earned the beauty titles of VDH (German) youth champion and European youth winner. The Weimaraner club of Germany does don´t write any titles in the papers.
I just called the VDH last week and asked if this is o.k.. Since the Weimaraner club is a member of the VDH. These are VDH/FCI titles and I thought I kind of had a right for them to be recognized.
But the VDH told me that the breed clubs can decide weather or not they write down the beauty titles.
I do understand that my country is against Weims being just show dogs and are for their hunting use only. But my girl "Brigid von Walhalla" has achieved marvelous results in her hunting test. She earned top scores in VJP, HZP, VGP and bloodtracking. On top of that we held our own in the ring and didn´t look too bad in coparision with Weims that are bred mostly for their conformation. Instead of honoring my strive to show that german bred Weims can hold their own with the "show dogs", I get a kick in the bud and my time and effort gets no recognition !
Amazingly they write down in the papers when a dog gets a CACIB ?
So I´ll try for the International show champion now and then ask again about recognizing this titel. But I am not sure if I will succede.
I´ll keep you posted.

Nadja