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Post by amcbienvenu on Feb 27, 2009 11:58:02 GMT 1
Hello!
My boyfriend and I are looking to get a new puppy, and we have fallen in love with Weimaraners. Before settling down on one, we want to make sure that we can offer him a home where he will be happy. So, we are hoping that you may be able to give some of your expert advice!
So, we are young, active couple living in an apartment. We currently have a Jack Russel Terrier. We both work away from the house. In the morning we get up and take our pup on a walk. We leave around 9h30 for work. One of us is back around noon. We take the puppy out again for a walk. Someone is there until around 2. From 2 until about 6 we are at work. Around 6 we get home and take the puppy out again, and one more time before going to bed. Of course, he gets lots of play time and attention when we are at the house!
On the weekend, we are active. We like to go biking and for hikes in the woods with our dog to give him some "leash-free" fun.
All of this being said, do you think a Weimar would be a good fit for us? We are looking for a playmate for our current pup, and a dog that we can bring with us during our outdoor adventures.
We appreciate any help you can give!
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Post by marjolein on Feb 27, 2009 13:22:41 GMT 1
Hi and welcome here from me and my longhaired Weimaraners. First of all, is your Jack Russell still a pup? If so, I wouldn't advice you to start already with a new dog (no matter what breed). Dogs are copycats so they will copy any behaviour, either good or bad. So make sure you Jack is at least 2.5 years old, completely settled and well trained.
Secondly, I do not really like a pup to be left alone 5 days a week. A Weimaraner is an active dog who needs stimulation, both physical and mentally. If he won't get that, he'll make sure you'll know. He can start eating your house, barking like mad, becoming neurotic, bullying your other dog etc. etc. etc.
Others might advice differently, but I would advice you not to take a Weimaraner untill your life style has changed a bit.
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Aga
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Post by Aga on Feb 27, 2009 14:25:40 GMT 1
I wouldn't say that - I think that if at least one of these everyday walks is really long and challenging, a Weim can be happy with such conditions, especially if there is another dog. If left alone, he/she could be unhappy, stressed etc. and then he/she could destroy everything.
We also both work with my husband, my dogs are sometimes alone 7 hours a day, but there are two of them at home and they seem calm and relaxed. But then, in the afternoon or evening, they get what they want - a lot of exercise and interest.
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Post by chiendog on Feb 27, 2009 14:34:16 GMT 1
I agree completely with what Marjolein has written and would add that if you are not active hunters and/or field trialers, you should never consider a dog from any of the hunting breeds...including a Weimaraner.
I am sorry if that sounds harsh. And I am aware that there are many people (especially in the Weim world) that feel it is just fine for hunting dogs to go to non-hunting homes. But I urge to you to please consider that dog. If it is well bred, its entire genetic code is wired for the hunt, its main reason for being is to hunt.
You wrote that you want to "offer him a home where he will be happy." Well in my opinion, you can offer him a home with all the love, attention and creature comforts in the world. But if you neglect the the most crucial reason that your dog is put on this earth...to hunt...you are condemning him to a life only half-lived. And that is NOT a happy dog.
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Post by Irena on Feb 27, 2009 15:53:40 GMT 1
But if you neglect the the most crucial reason that your dog is put on this earth...to hunt...you are condemning him to a life only half-lived. Just out of interest, how many days out of a normal working week do your dogs get to hunt, and how far away are the hunting grounds? |
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Post by chiendog on Feb 27, 2009 16:22:42 GMT 1
Just out of interest, how many days out of a normal working week do your dogs get to hunt, and how far away are the hunting grounds? During the regular hunting season (Sept 1 to Xmas) our dogs hunt on average 4-5 days per week. We usually hunt waterfowl near daybreak and at dusk and upland birds during the day. Our hunting grounds range from 40 minutes from our front door to 18 hours and several provinces (or states) away depending on the time of year and what game we are after (we live in Manitoba, central Canada but travel to Saskatchewan, North Dakota, South Dakota, Michigan etc. on occasion) After the regular season, during the winter, we hunt hares a few times in January (they are basically in season year round in our province) but leave them alone in Feb/March (they don't taste very good at that time) This year we went to New Mexico (USA) to see if we can find a place to stay for a couple of months each winter. We want to get away from the cold and also find a place to hunt after our season is over. In New Mexico, the quail season runs until mid February (by the way, I took some photos of GSP's while we were there last week. You can see them at www.craigkoshykphoto.ca/rugerheim.html ) In the spring (April/May) we train for upcoming tests ( www.navhda.org) and run "fun-trial" events (basically non-judged field trials on reared game. They are mainly for young dogs to give them experience). In summer we train for water work due to 1. heat and 2. nesting birds in the field. By mid August we are back in the field 2-3 times a week working wild birds again (just searching and pointing..no shooting except with camera) to get in shape for the season which starts all over again in September. I should mention that this year our regular season was cut short by very cold (-30) temperatures and more snow than usual. In fact, we only made it to the field once or twice in December and Jan. As a result, our dogs are suffering terribly from what we call "cabin fever". They are well fed, rested, pampered in fact, but they are extremely frustrated with not being able to get out and run in the field. The extreme cold is still here (last night it was -46!). The weather people tell me that spring is on the way however with forecast highs of -5 by next week  |
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Post by marjolein on Feb 27, 2009 16:38:09 GMT 1
I wouldn't say that - I think that if at least one of these everyday walks is really long and challenging, a Weim can be happy with such conditions, especially if there is another dog. But what about the first year of the dogs life? |
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Post by Kobie on Feb 27, 2009 17:27:45 GMT 1
Our dogs hunts during the huntingseason(s), but not the whole year around. Of course, we look for a substitute, like hunttraining the periods we can't hunt them (FT & huntingtests).
However they prefer to go on hunting, they can extremely enjoy the precence of the family and just being lazy next to the fireplace ;D
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Post by tasha on Feb 28, 2009 14:23:16 GMT 1
personally I'd say no for now as I just don't know enough about you and your situation but what ever breed you buy with a jack russell you'll need to make sure that they are supervised jacks can have a rotten temper and do alot of damage quickly so if they are left unattended for long periods of time you could be putting either of them at risk unless seperated or crated.
Re the hunting much as we would all love to be in the position craig is the practicality of it is that the majority of us aren't otherwise there probably wouldn't be much of a breed. They can make good pets if they are given proper training (lifetime not just puppy) and a chance to exercise their instincts be it in the form of hunting or other events like agility etc they need their minds testing not just physical exercise.
These are a people breed so why not find a local club go along and see the dogs with their owners and find out more information about them before settling on a breed like this, they are a challenge, can be distructive if bored, suffer from Separation Anxiety when left and to be honest are not a breed to buy to keep another dog company.
With regard to running etc the recommendation here in the UK is to wait until the dog is 18 months and the bones have settled otherwise you could do long term damage to them.
They are a fabulous breed but if your not up to the challenge you'll all be miserable.
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Post by chiendog on Feb 28, 2009 16:12:30 GMT 1
This is true. But I must respectfully disagree with the "not much of a breed" thing. It is a fact that most Weimaraner owners do not hunt. And if the Weimaraner were still as its founders had intended ie: bred by and for hunters, its world-wide population today would be perhaps 10 to 15 thousand working dogs.
And in my opinion that would be a very good thing. That would be a healthy breed of dogs fulfilling their purpose on this earth.
As it is, there are actually 10 to 15 thousand working Weimaraners in the world. But there are also perhaps another quarter MILLION that do not work. And all those dogs are with people that in the main do their best to sort of, kind of, make up for the lack of hunting by doing all kinds of things ranging from walkies to doggy dancing to flyball to couch surfing. While I applaud their efforts, and mean them no disrespect whatsoever, I simply must point out that there is no substitute for the "real thing". So when a person who does not yet have a Weimaraner asks if she/he should get one, the first thing I ask is "do you hunt?". If the answer is no, I tell them the same thing I tell people who want a Border Collie but have no sheep: Get a different breed. There are many, many breeds out there whose entire genetic code is set up to make a fantastic companion animal. There are millions of random bred dogs free (more or less) for the taking at shelters everywhere. Do one of those dogs a favour and leave the working breeds to people that can actually work them.
And let me just add that I would personally LOVE to have a Border Collie. I've wanted one for years. And I may indeed get one someday...but if/when I do, you can be sure that there will be a flock of sheep in my back yard.
I know, I know, I sound like an old grouch. But someone has to give voice to the noble German founders of the Weim. I can practically hear them spin in their graves everytime another Weim is placed in a doggy-dance home....
Ok, rant over. Flame suit on.
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Post by marjolein on Feb 28, 2009 19:11:16 GMT 1
I don't really think not hunting the biggest problem for the breed, but breeding from those dogs that aren't used for hunting is. The natural ability degrades rapidly if people stop paying attention to what makes the Weimaraner a Weimaraner, a proper versatile hunting dog.
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Post by chiendog on Feb 28, 2009 19:21:48 GMT 1
Good point Mar. But it can also be argued that the market for dogs bred from non-hunting parents exists only because non-hunters want those dogs. If only hunters bought Weimaraners there would be no non-hunting dogs bred at all. As it is, the largest and most lucrative market for Weimaraners are the non-hunting men/women seeking a good looking dog.
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Post by marjolein on Feb 28, 2009 21:19:40 GMT 1
Hehehe, you know I agree with you wholeheartedly Craig.
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Post by Irena on Mar 1, 2009 9:32:39 GMT 1
Ok, rant over. Flame suit on. I think there is no need, as this debate is very, very old and there are hardly any flames left. I believe there are good and valid points to both views. I would like to see the "real thing" (hunting) defined though. If it means finding, pointing and flushing the game, then it seems all Weimaraners get that chance quite frequently on walks. (might not be the right kind of game but they enjoy it nevertheless) If it means, beyond that, cooperation and working with the master as a team, then it seems that activities such as "doggy-dancing", obedience, agility etc etc etc would work out perfectly for a Weimaraner. If it means a rush of instinct (to the point of shaking all over) when they see game, then this is apparently curbed when a hare suddenly jumps out of the nearby bushes and you call the dog back and forbid it to chase it. If it means finding, pointing and flushing the game and then finishing the job by retrieving it, then that part is apparently left out when one only "shoots" with a photo camera.... I'm just trying to understand what it is that would supposedly make a Weimaraner utterly miserable if it is placed in a non-hunting, but nevertheless a very active and versatile home. |
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Aga
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Post by Aga on Mar 1, 2009 9:58:18 GMT 1
And I am of exactly the same opinion.
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Post by Rachel on Mar 1, 2009 12:59:27 GMT 1
I knew someone that had a Weimaraner puppy first then went out a few months later and brought a Jack Russell puppy and they had to take the Jack Russell back as the Weim was just too full of itself and played too hard with the small puppy.
I think if I were you I would let your Jack Russell grow up this year and see what your circumstances are another year on.
Do not buy a Weimaraner just for a companion for the puppy because the Weimaraner is not satisfied with just other dog company. They want you all the time, and when you leave the door the dog may pine for you.
I hear what all the other breeders are telling you with info on hunting but in the UK in particular hardly any dogs are hunted with, its a small minority.
Rachel
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Post by chiendog on Mar 1, 2009 23:08:42 GMT 1
Ok, rant over. Flame suit on. I think there is no need, as this debate is very, very old and there are hardly any flames left. I believe there are good and valid points to both views. I would like to see the "real thing" (hunting) defined though. There are some things that are kind of, sort of, in some ways similar to having sex. But the real thing, is...well, the real thing. I don't mean to take the analogy too far, and I know it is a bit of a stretch, but think about it: People are generally born with a strong desire to participate in sexual activities....straight, bi, gay, alone, whatever. And while it may be true that there are some people that can and do live sex-less lives, for the most part, those that are denied the opportunity to express their sexuality and satisfy their very basic urges tend not to be the happiest among us. At best, they are frustrated. At worst, they go insane. Remember this: Weimaraners should be made up of basically 4 legs, a nose and an all-consuming desire to hunt...really hunt, which means helping us partake in a murderous bloodsport that involves finding, killing, gutting and eventually devouring prey. So how much sense does it make to tell them "sorry, you must not follow your primary urges, please ignore your genetic code... but we have a charming doggy-dance and a lively game of fetch to offer as a substitute"? There can only be two outcomes of such a crazy scheme: Either we condemn a dog to a life of monk-like denial of its most basic urges, or we breed those urges out of the dogs and turn the entire breed into a cartoon caricature of what it was meant to be. I am not sure what your views are on Pitbulls and other breeds that have been created to fight, but my view is that they should either be: 1. allowed to fight (I personally do not condone dog fighting) or 2. they should go extinct (this would be my preference). As it is, fighting dogs continue to be bred by people who cannot let them fight (legally). Their owners must remain ever-vigilant and struggle to suppress the very urges that define the breed. And look at how well that has worked! Many of those dogs are time-bombs waiting to go off and are banned in much of Europe. With the Weim the trend over the last 50 years has been to breed the hunt out of the dogs for the sake of the pet/companion market. Personally, and I say this in all honesty and with great love for the breed: if it is no longer going to be used as a hunting dog, I would prefer to see it go extinct. |
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Post by Irena on Mar 2, 2009 10:26:19 GMT 1
I don't mean to take the analogy too far, and I know it is a bit of a stretch, but think about it: People are generally born with a strong desire to participate in sexual activities....straight, bi, gay, alone, whatever. And while it may be true that there are some people that can and do live sex-less lives, for the most part, those that are denied the opportunity to express their sexuality and satisfy their very basic urges tend not to be the happiest among us. At best, they are frustrated. At worst, they go insane. At the sanest and most productive, they redirect their desires into something else (very successfully!). There is actually a view that it's healthy to have sex much less often than most people engage in it - like once a month, devoting the rest of the time and energy to something more productive. (scary thought, eh?  ;D ) If I let my Weimaraner follow her urges all the time, I probably wouldn't have her anymore. She would be happy to chase and kill cats (because that's one of their "tasks", finishing off small furry animals", isn't it), and she would have been run over by a train if she did chase the hares that she flushes accidentally on our walks. So yes, I tell her to ignore her 'genetic code' quite a lot (I usually redirect it, like start a game with her or something). As for birds, she is very much encouraged to find and point them, and I don't think any owner in their right mind would tell their dog to "ignore their genetic code" on that matter... I may be just lucky but I don't know of any such breeders. The hunt is there, you can see it in their desire and interest in pointing, in working together with you, understanding the slightest cues that you give, in searching and retrieving anything (a shot duck, or a lost billfold....), in following the track (of a wounded animal, or of a lost person), in being composed when they have to, and bursting out with energy when they can.... It's just what one prefers to focus on, or it could be some of everything (as this IS a versatile breed). Could it be that what you are imagining is a worst case scenario of a person that e.g. gets a Weim just to do its nails in pink and take it for a stroll in the city park to turn heads? There is, in my opinion, just a big range of persons and families suitable for owning a Weimaraner, between that and a family of hunters living out in the wilderness. |
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Post by chiendog on Mar 2, 2009 15:03:30 GMT 1
You are indeed lucky! Most of the world is not. Please remember that there are tens of thousands of Weim pups born each year. The world wide population of the breed may be as high as half a million individuals. Perhaps 2% of them hunt. The rest are "redirected" and/or selected NOT to hunt.
And if you believe that the "hunt is still there" I would say that the hunt is still there in my sister's tea cup poodle. All canine's have some hunting desire in them...just as all humans do. But for most, the level is so low, it is at the bottom of the list of priorities and they simply do not hunt. It is a sad fact that the majority of Weimaraner bred in the world today do not even have enough hunting drive to make it beyond the lowest level hunt test. They are generally laughed out of the field trial arena. Do they chase squirrels and point sparrows at the park? Sure. Is that a good indication of true hunting desire/ability? No.
Irena, I greatly admire your love for the breed and your ability to clearly articulate your position. You raise some interesting and valid points. But we will have to agree to disagree on the issue of hunting. It is simply too deep in my own genes. I have been a hunter all of my life. My grandfathers and father fed their families by hunting. I now hunt to carry on that tradition, even though I can buy a slab of meat at the butchershop. So to understand where I am coming from, please remember that I can only relate to the Weimaraner as a breed created by and for the hunt. Change or remove any part of that fact and we are no longer talking about Weimaraners...we are talking about cute grey William-Wegmananers, a breed that I would rather do without.
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Post by tasha on Mar 5, 2009 18:21:04 GMT 1
I'd love to see more of the hunting variety encouraged in the UK there are far too many pets you can get opportunities here to hunt your dog and in some cases the dog gets you into hunting... I'm all for encouraging people to widen their horizons and trying a lifestyle that is more down to earth.
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