Post by chiendog on Jul 20, 2009 4:18:32 GMT 1
Ok, we've all read about Karl August of Sachsen-Weimar and his connection to the Weimarner right? You know, the Grand Duke, that fancy-pants European nobleman, friend of Goethe, who liked his schnapps a bit too much, and, according to most Weim histories, more or less created the grey ghost and shared the breed with his fancy-pants friends? Ya, that guy.
Ok, so tell me this: why is it that despite years of on-again, off-again research into the Duke have I been unable to find one, single, solitary piece of solid evidence that proves he even knew what a Weimaraner was, let alone created it from scratch?
Sure I've read all the stuff published by Weimaraner enthusiasts. They are nearly unanimous in their assertion that the Weim came from the court of the Grand Duke. They point to paintings that seem to show the old guy out hunting, with dogs of all kinds prancing around the game fields of his estates. Any dog in these illustrations that is short haired and lighter in colour is immediately "identified" as a Weim. And they write that "it is said that the Grand Duke..." or "according to tradition, Karl August"...yada yada yada. Yet none provide anything more than a sort of "I heard it from a guy who knew a guy that had a friend who heard..." sort of thing.
Now, the few mentions I can find of the Grand Duke that were written by men who tried to get to the bottom of the story turn out to be completely opposite to what most people believe. Guys like Robert Herber and Dr. Kleeman, renowned experts who lived and breathed this kind of stuff, concluded that:
"the hunting activity of the Dukes of Weimar had nothing to do with the existance of the Weimaraner" (Kleeman) and that "hunting writers of the Royal Court of Weimar never mentioned the Weimaraner, which they by all means would have done for patriotic reasons." (Herber).
Robert Herber, the "father of the Weimaraner" goes on to say that "I have been in touch with the Hofmarschallamt and the Hofjagdamt in Weimar, who had found nothing concerning the Weimaraner despite thorough searching through their files. The name was probably brought into existence because the Weimaraner first occurred in large numbers in Weimar and was bred there. Even Diezel says nothing about the Weimaraner in 1873. (Herber, Deutsch Waidwerk No 22, September 1, 1939)
And I too have tried, in vain, to find any mention of Weimaraners in writings about the Grand Duke by people not connected to the breed. I've poured over a couple of Duke biographies and found nada, zippo, zitch about Weimaraners in them. Recently, I noticed that there is a new biography on the market. Written by Volker Ebersbach, it seems to be mainly about the Duke's connection to Goethe. On the cover is a beautiful painting of the Duke with a dog sitting beside him.
So, if Karl August did have a hand in creating the Weimaraner and if he did, as some "authorities" claim strive to keep it among the nobles of Weimar, why, oh why would he have his painting done showing him with a dog that is surely NOT a Weim?
Does anyone have this book...or access to it at a local library or book shop? I would love to know if the author makes any mention of the Weimaraner in it.
And while we are at it, can anyone tell me how the dogs in this illustration of the Grand Duke, Goethe and Corena Schroeter can be mistaken for Weims?
There are plenty of other illustrations of the man, some of them feature dogs. In NONE of them, is there clear evidence that the dogs are Weimaraners.
What gives? Is the whole Grand Duke thing just wishful thinking? Is it all a bunch of hokum?
Does anyone have any information they can point me to that clearly established a link between the Weimaraner and the Grand Duke?
Ok, so tell me this: why is it that despite years of on-again, off-again research into the Duke have I been unable to find one, single, solitary piece of solid evidence that proves he even knew what a Weimaraner was, let alone created it from scratch?
Sure I've read all the stuff published by Weimaraner enthusiasts. They are nearly unanimous in their assertion that the Weim came from the court of the Grand Duke. They point to paintings that seem to show the old guy out hunting, with dogs of all kinds prancing around the game fields of his estates. Any dog in these illustrations that is short haired and lighter in colour is immediately "identified" as a Weim. And they write that "it is said that the Grand Duke..." or "according to tradition, Karl August"...yada yada yada. Yet none provide anything more than a sort of "I heard it from a guy who knew a guy that had a friend who heard..." sort of thing.
Now, the few mentions I can find of the Grand Duke that were written by men who tried to get to the bottom of the story turn out to be completely opposite to what most people believe. Guys like Robert Herber and Dr. Kleeman, renowned experts who lived and breathed this kind of stuff, concluded that:
"the hunting activity of the Dukes of Weimar had nothing to do with the existance of the Weimaraner" (Kleeman) and that "hunting writers of the Royal Court of Weimar never mentioned the Weimaraner, which they by all means would have done for patriotic reasons." (Herber).
Robert Herber, the "father of the Weimaraner" goes on to say that "I have been in touch with the Hofmarschallamt and the Hofjagdamt in Weimar, who had found nothing concerning the Weimaraner despite thorough searching through their files. The name was probably brought into existence because the Weimaraner first occurred in large numbers in Weimar and was bred there. Even Diezel says nothing about the Weimaraner in 1873. (Herber, Deutsch Waidwerk No 22, September 1, 1939)
And I too have tried, in vain, to find any mention of Weimaraners in writings about the Grand Duke by people not connected to the breed. I've poured over a couple of Duke biographies and found nada, zippo, zitch about Weimaraners in them. Recently, I noticed that there is a new biography on the market. Written by Volker Ebersbach, it seems to be mainly about the Duke's connection to Goethe. On the cover is a beautiful painting of the Duke with a dog sitting beside him.
So, if Karl August did have a hand in creating the Weimaraner and if he did, as some "authorities" claim strive to keep it among the nobles of Weimar, why, oh why would he have his painting done showing him with a dog that is surely NOT a Weim?
Does anyone have this book...or access to it at a local library or book shop? I would love to know if the author makes any mention of the Weimaraner in it.
And while we are at it, can anyone tell me how the dogs in this illustration of the Grand Duke, Goethe and Corena Schroeter can be mistaken for Weims?
There are plenty of other illustrations of the man, some of them feature dogs. In NONE of them, is there clear evidence that the dogs are Weimaraners.
What gives? Is the whole Grand Duke thing just wishful thinking? Is it all a bunch of hokum?
Does anyone have any information they can point me to that clearly established a link between the Weimaraner and the Grand Duke?
