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Post by eydimork on Mar 6, 2006 21:50:11 GMT 1
I while ago I asked this question at another forum (predominantly American) and was very surprised when a grand total of ONE person hunted with their Weim and TWO did any kind of hunting-like activity. Everyone else stated that no, they do no sort of hunting or hunting-like activity at all with their dogs.
I'm curious about this place, though, since it seems we have a number of hunters here!
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Post by marjolein on Mar 6, 2006 22:34:05 GMT 1
Ok, I'm the first one, but I'm sure there will be more to follow....
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Post by ralph on Mar 6, 2006 22:54:08 GMT 1
hunting activities but my favorite colour is olive green  gr. Ralph |
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Post by chiendog on Mar 7, 2006 1:26:53 GMT 1
Yes, we hunt with our Weimaraners. That is why we feed them.
Eydimork, the results from the poll you posted at the other site accurately reflect the Weimaraner reality in North America (and probably everywhere else outside of Germany/Austria.)
Among the versatile breeds, the Weimaraner has by far the most dismal non-hunter to hunter ratio...probably on the order of 500 to 1. Among all the gundog breeds, the ratio is only slightly better than that of the Standard Poodle and American Cocker.
Sad but true.
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Post by eydimork on Mar 7, 2006 3:41:02 GMT 1
If those numbers are true, they are absolutely shocking! In this country it would seem that most people, whether Weimaraner owners or not, that you should absolutely not own a dog like this if you do not intend to hunt. That is not to say that non-hunters don't have Weimaraners, but the general consensus whereever I turn locally/nationally seems to be that whether it's a Weimaraner, Vorsteh, Pointer, Curly Coated Retriever or Gordon Setter, they are all hunting dogs and should be owned by active hunters. Edit: Giving away my non-English native status here. With Vorsteh, I mean German [insert fur type] Pointer, and with Pointer I mean English Pointer.  |
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Post by chiendog on Mar 7, 2006 4:52:22 GMT 1
Every year there are approximately 9000 Weimaraner pups registered with the AKC. Several hundred (or thousands?) are registered with the CKC and who knows how many more are whelped but not registered with any club. So let's assume that most years there are 10 to 12 thousand Weimaraners born in North America.
If we estimate the average life-span of a dog to be say 8 years, that would mean there are over 80 thousand Weimaraners in the U.S. and Canada...and maybe as many as one hundred thousand grey dogs on couches across the continent (!!).
It is my estimation that no more than a few hundred of those see regular action in the field. There are probably fewer than 100 Weimaraners that compete regularly in field trials and maybe a few dozen are tested in navhda.
We should note that the Weims that do hunt and compete can be very, very good. I will seek an American stud when it comes time to breed a bitch I intend to import from Germany. However, out of the tens of thousands of intact males in the U.S. there are maybe a half dozen that I will even consider. The vast majority are completely unproven in any form of field work and should not be considered hunting dogs.
I am happy to hear that in Sweden, it is understood that one gets a dog of a certain breed for a certain purpose. I have always loved Border Collies, but will never get one... because I have no sheep!
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Post by marjolein on Mar 7, 2006 8:03:31 GMT 1
Ok, to take this discussion a step further. I usually get invited at hunts, b/c people know me and want to do me a favour. Another reason is that they're seen my dog work on field trials. Only one hunter invites me, the rest of the hunters is unaware of our capabilities (this is not meant arrogant btw, we're just average hunters, the dog and me). At the end of the day, all hunters say the same thing. They say when they saw me coming in the morning, they didn't expect much good from a Weimaraner, but I showed them they can hunt just as good as any other dog and that they're agressive at all. There seems to be a general opninion about Weims that goes back to the old days, when you had one or two Weims that didn't hunt and would almost kill you as they could (as a matter of speech). I am convinced that this is one of the reasons that the Weims are not used that much, by hunters.
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Post by eydimork on Mar 7, 2006 8:32:47 GMT 1
I don't have personal experience of what you're talking about Marjolein, but I do think you make a very valid point. Things I have heard on hunting with Weimaraners here: * Weimaraners in Sweden come from show lines and are therefore worse hunters than other hunting dogs (in almost the same breath as, "you should never have a Weim if you're not going to hunt"). * Weimaraners have a very "hard/sharp" mentality (in the sense that makes them unsuitable for anything but hardcore hunting and the most dominant owner in the history of dogkeeping). * Weimaraners are like German Pointers but WITHOUT the "hard/sharp" mentality (often followed by a GP owner explaining that pointers aren't like that).  * Weimaraners are too weak to hunt BECAUSE they lack the Pointer's focus. |
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Post by Anci on Mar 7, 2006 13:47:56 GMT 1
YES, of course we do! We allways have! We hunt pheasants, partridge, grouse, ducks, capercalllie, geese, rabbits, hares, roedeer, elk, fox... And sometimes we use our dogs as bloodtrackingdogs as well, used to track injured roedeer or elk.  The weimaraner came to Sweden in 1969, the first litter was born in 1974. (Just some history to make you understand that the weim is very new in our country.) My personal thought are, that I think that most of the dogs were not owned by hunters in the beginning. The "hunting-business" is rather new and more common the last 10 years... In the early nineties, when we bought our first weimaraner, nearly no-one had heard or seen a weimaraner hunt in Sweden. They were at least very few! The weimaraners then had to go to fieldtrials among GSPs and münsterländers. And, the numbers of weims in fieldtrials/huntingtests also were few. People used to say: "Well, you have a nice looking dog but as hunter I don´t know..." This was very common said by people who didn´t know anything OR never had seen a weim in the fields... But, we showed them and succeeded!Later on, in 1994, when the Sw WeimClub got official, we also got our own official huntingtests and rules. Our rules are not "kinder" in any way, we just looked at the origin - Germany. How do they hunt, what is the dog supposed to do when hunting etc... More and more weims entered in tests/trials, more of them got merited. The weimaraner became more a HUNTER. At first, lots of breeders sold their puppies to non-hunters. I remember when some of them used to phone me and yell at me: "You must be really stupid, how on earth can you ever say that a weim is a hunter and where do you find all these hunters who would prefer a weim instead of a GSP for hunting?" But, we showed them and succeeded!Now; more and more breeders value prizes from trials/tests more in their breedingprogram. Most of them look for it in the pedigrees for their future litters. Well, not all are, but at least half of the litters produced in Sweden has parents with some kind of prizes from fieldtrials/tests. And, of course, to get the litter on the Swedish puppylist you have to have parents with merits! This is also something that the breedclub fighted for some years to get "all" to understand... (Not all, because some people will never understand!  More and more weims today are seen in water- and trackingtest and fieldtrials. I think the breeders are more aware of the good in this! They "push" the owners to go, they get a good evaluation of their litters/offspring. Even though our own dogs first of all are familymembers, hunting means a lot. All our litters has been from dogs with prizes from trials/tests. The dog must have proven it´s abilities in hunting, in a typical weimaraner way. A studdog or broodbitch must very well fit in the breed standard both exteriour and the way they hunt. We have showed that and succeeded!My opinion is: a weimaraner is a hunter. Not a specialist, but good enough in many disciplines. I can´t see why you should devide the breed into two different lines; the huntingline and showline. It is possible to combine it: A DUAL PURPOSE. And when the huntingseason is off, you can have your dog to many other things it may appreciate; obedience, sleddogracing, tracking, swimming, agility - whatever! The only thing you can´t do with a weimaraner is - nothing! Frankly, @nci |
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Post by Peter on Mar 7, 2006 13:53:17 GMT 1
Well said Anci!!! |
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Post by Anci on Mar 7, 2006 13:55:56 GMT 1
Thank you, but it is a very honest and frank opinion from me...
@nci
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Post by Peter on Mar 7, 2006 14:01:34 GMT 1
and i couldn´t agree more, dual-purpose has to be the main objective in weimaranerbreeding,
but like you state it, most of us are on the right track now in sweden!
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Post by stelei on Mar 7, 2006 14:13:36 GMT 1
Anci`s excellent reply more or less also goes for Norway.
The breeds history here is quite similar, and today almost all norwegian breeders rank results from trials and tests as # 1 when it comes to chosing animals for their breeding.
The Weimaraner is also gaining when it comes to it`s reputation as a pointing gun dog in an environment dominated by the UK breeds, which we by the way are mathed against at the trials.
When it comes to the puppybyers, there has also been a very good development taking place. Only five years ago, we often recived calls or e-mails from people not even knowing that the Weim. is a pointing hunting dog! Today we are able to deliver all our puppies to hunters, and most of them with valuable experience from other breeds belonging to FCI group 7.
So, my friends, if you are searcing for a region that crushes the 500 to 1 ratio, look to Scandinavia!
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Post by Wetdog on Mar 7, 2006 22:13:18 GMT 1
Hi Rute--I'm moving this down here where it is more in line with the topic.
What I was refering to is the fact that many people don't hunt because they don't want to kill game for sport. However, it isn't necessary to kill game to enjoy the sport. In field trials and ratings tests, (at least over here) the person handling the dog does not shoot or handle the game except to recieve the retrieve. Domestically raised birds are "planted" in the fields for the dogs to find so the judges will know where the birds are and can evaluate the dogs performance. The birds are shot by seperate persons carrying the guns after the flush. As a dog handler, you don't do anything except take the game from the dog after the retrieve.
So what I was saying is that people who feel like they don't want to kill anything don't have to themselves.
The excitement of the hunt is just that, the hunt. I have never seen a dog that came back angry and sulky because he chased a rabbit and it got away, meaning he didn't get to kill it. On the contrary---the dogs are always sky high with excitement after a chase. They understand the "sport" of hunting perfectly it seems to me.
There are also coursing events, which you may have seen if you have ever been to a Greyhound race. The dogs chase a lure over a course that is wound up with an electric winch. In an open event, the lure would be wound around several posts set in the ground so that it would make turns and change directions as well as go in a straight line.
There are also Earth Dog events where the dogs run an obstacle course to chase a lure into a hole. Sort of a hunting dog agility course.
Retrieving can be a sport in itself---on land and water, and many clubs have races measuring speed and accuracy of retrieves.
Tracking of coarse is a direct translation of a hunting skill that can be used in many different ways---the main thing being that the dog is now hunting by scent for what you tell it to. A police dog finding drugs, or an SAR dog looking for a lost child is using the exact same scenting hunting instinct he would be if he were in the field looking for birds.
I also have German Shepherds. They are working dogs, but to be working dogs they need high prey drive.
It is exactly the same genetic drive that you find in any hunting breed, it has simply been translated into "work" where a human situation mimics or makes use of the genetic program that the dog has inherited, in this case, herding instinct is directed to human protection work. My German Shepherd, Dixie Belle, learned to hunt birds by watching the other Weimaraners hunt when she came to the club field days---because she has the same genetically inherited instincts.
So this is what I was refering to.
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Post by moonbeam on Mar 8, 2006 16:52:38 GMT 1
I don't go to organised events for hunting or tracking activities but it doesn't prevent the boys following a track or pointing, flushing, chasing. I get a great deal of pleasure watching them do what comes naturally. The concentration of the 'hunt' and then the carefree bounding around until they pick up the next scent is good enough for me.
Mariy
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Post by weimaranermama on Apr 9, 2006 17:46:39 GMT 1
Ancy you wrote a very good topic. I agree with that. The weimaraner is a huntingdog and also a good showdog. And both things has to be in one dog.
It was nice to read that.
Gr. Ina
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Post by mojo on May 4, 2006 12:01:11 GMT 1
Hi every one....
Here, in France it's the same. Very few weim go hunting because owners only fell in love on his colour.....and the money needing of every one let the dogs leaving for non hunting homes.
As member of the French Weim club committee, I'm fighting in the way that our weim was born to be a gundog......and must stay as a gundog !!
Show me hunters and trial dogs.....I will choose the nicest !!
Selecting only on the appearance is the way to forget a big part of our dog: his mind ! his hunting willness !!.......it's loosing the half of the breed !!
In dogshow, how can you see his mind if the dog is not in WORKING class ?? I don't ask for Field Champion title but just one or two placements...
Each year, I organize several trials, hunting ability tests, BICP (like NAVHDA).....8 races last year !! I try to keep every one in my way......but it's a very hard job to look forward other people and dog's success !!!
I call that working for the breed.....don't you ?
I'm breeding weims since 1988 and always hunt with them partridges, pheasans, woodcocks and snipes.....and all my dogs were field pointed EXC or BICP.
Actually, I have 7 dogs at home....not in a kennel !
3 weims and 4 small munsterlanders and they all go in dogshows and trial......and hunt !
-1 is comformation, International and Europe Champion
Field pointed and BICP 32/32......10 years old.
-1 is comformation, Inernational, spain and Europe Champion
Field pointed, Breed Trial Champion, BICP 32/32, winner of the 2005 BICP Challenge, selected for the Trial's French Open.....5 years old (son of the first)
- 1 is comformation and International Champion.
Field pointed....(10 years old) (brother of the first).
- 1 is Field Pointed and BICP, 7 CACIB (2 Years old)
- 1 is International Champion and field pointed EXC (6 years old).
- 1 is Field Pointed EXC and selected for the Trial's French Open.
(2 years old)
- 1 is TAN and EXC RCACS in dogshow.....
All that to explain.....that both is possible......nice and good !
Chris
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Post by marjolein on May 4, 2006 15:13:19 GMT 1
Same here Chris. Both my girls are both national and international champions and have achieved an official bloodtracking qualification and 2 certificates of merit in FT and the other one has 5 FT qualifications, all being placed and a couple of certificates of merit. She also did VJP and HZP.It does go hand in hand, like it should go!!!
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Post by groovydreamyfab on May 5, 2006 5:57:30 GMT 1
The only things my weims hunt are treats in the sofa and balls in the grass.
If they're having a good day, they may root out a mole or chase the birds and squirrels out of the yard. Dreamy presented me with a turtle in the bed last week, does that count?
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