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Post by mike on Jan 30, 2006 13:14:43 GMT 1
Harley has got to the point of being fairly biddable in the showring and we are now starting on fine tuning things. I have a few questions with regards placement of various "bits" of the dog (so I can tell Kath if she is getting it right or wrong!) Starting with the head, the top of the muzzle should it be parallel to the floor or tipped slightly up (or down?) a lot of the dogs I see seem to be shown with the dog looking slightly "up". Just not 100% sure which is correct. Sticking with the head, how far forward (if at all) should it be? Some dogs seem to be stacked with the head a long way forward of the shoulders and others with the head almost over the shoulders. Which is correct? And finally (for a minute ) should the tail when stacked be held level with the topline or tipped slightly up? Thanks in advance for any help
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Post by slava on Jan 31, 2006 3:19:33 GMT 1
I'm also interested! Here is our attempts: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Please, feel free to comment and find faults And some extrim ;D
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Post by marjolein on Jan 31, 2006 8:57:25 GMT 1
Sorry, stacking is my WEAKEST point, can't really help out.
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Post by Weims on Jan 31, 2006 21:50:25 GMT 1
Oh Boy... Eerrmm.... I have been showing now for 11 Years. I have watched ringside and I do try to practice what I see.
For me... the problems with the pics are: Pic 1, back legs stretched out too far, I was told that the hocks should be vertical. Pic 2 legs again too far stretched and head not showing the best outline. Pic 3.. sorry but that pic is just awful, it doesnt show the elegant outline of the dog at all. the head pointing upwards makes the dog really up on toes and therefore chest looks like it doesnt go any where near the elbows. Pic 4 has the same problem as pic 2. Pic 5 is the better one but I personallywould still like the head to be level. Pic 6 just looks like a pet shot, not a dog in show stance.
Pic 7.. the dog on the left with the lady in black is a lovely shot and shows the dog off to a tee. the outline looks nice, she is alert, a nice level head showing her good length of neck. All together a lovely picture of a weimaraner.
For anyone standing ringside watching the dogs in pic 7 the dog on the right well I have listed above the points Iwould look for, but the second dog how that one is being stood makes him look short in back, his back legs need to be a bit further back, he needs to be concentrating on the handler not someone ringside. I can see he is only a puppy and would be excused this but I am just trying to point out how a different stance can make a dog look completely different and not his best.
I hope I aren't going to be shot down for my comments as they are my personal opinion. I dont judge I just know what I like to see.
Lynn
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Post by Weims on Jan 31, 2006 21:52:01 GMT 1
Mike, I forgot to say.... about the tail it should be held level when stacking and should be carried level when moving. IMO
Lynn
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Post by marjolein on Jan 31, 2006 22:39:30 GMT 1
Lynn, thanks for this reply!!! It makes it all a bit more clear to me!
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Post by daniela on Jan 31, 2006 23:00:51 GMT 1
These are hard questions to answer without demonstrating but I will give it a shot.
First and foremost, your dog should be comfortable and happy with what you want him to do.
The muzzle should be level, sometimes even with the best trained dogs they can get a little fidgety and that’s when you may sometimes see the muzzle pointing upwards – or star gazers as I tend to call them.
Another factor to take into consideration is the height of dog and handler. I usually tend to stand with the bigger dogs I show because I have more control that way. Whereas with bitches and puppies, I tend to kneel to show them because I know that I am less likely to pull them up to my level when I stand, and I don’t want to create that star gazing effect which you talk about. Not only that I am able to sit back when I kneel and evaluate how they look.
With regard to how far forward the head should be, well again hard to explain without being able to demonstrate. Sometimes you will see dogs with their necks extended forward when the handler uses bait. Heads almost over the shoulders - hmm, trying to decipher what you actually mean but I think I get the picture. You work with what you have got, and the neck should not be pulled too far forward nor should it be resting too far back – the dog should be comfortable.
All dogs are different and nine times out of ten, I have to adapt my handling to suit the dog: some I stack to the left, some to the right, some I hold their head, some I hold with the lead, some I show standing, some I show kneeling. Some may not have the best construction in the world, so you can see all sorts: stuffy necks, necks that just appear to sit on top of the shoulders etc. An experienced handler will know what they are dealing with as soon as they get hold of the lead and will work with what they have to show the dog off to its best advantage.
As for the tail, if you imagine the hands of a clock, I guess I hold the tail at around 10 past. Personally, I don’t like to hold it level; but that’s just my preference. However, if you have a dog with a short back, I would advise holding the tail level with the topline so it gives the illusion of more length.
Anyway, I hope that has helped a little. The best way to learn is to sit ringside and watch.
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Post by slava on Feb 1, 2006 1:11:24 GMT 1
Lynn, thank you very much for so detailed comments. I like it and try to learn more
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Post by mike on Feb 2, 2006 21:17:16 GMT 1
Thank you for the kind replies they have been very helpful. I'll try and get some pics of Harley up soon and maybe people could comment on things we've got wrong?
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Post by silvestre on Feb 27, 2006 13:32:17 GMT 1
Its a good question but as the others have said, so difficult to explain on the computer. Sorry I have not been on the board for ages, so I dont know who you are really. Do you stack your dog up or free stand. I did not realise when I first typed this out where you live, now I see Devon so you are in the UK. I have seen Daniella free stand a dog once in the ring a couple of years ago, and thought OM Goodness what a fantastic looking dog. I like to see them free stood, but in the UK most people hold the dog. I dont know if you remember me Daniella as we I think have met once. I always have a job to hold my dogs now because of a hand injury last year, I get so I shake awful and it puts the dog off. I nearly lost the use of my hand, but its okay now, just have a weakness. Anyway I had to laugh at the one photo of the dog flat. I think people try to make the neck more outstretched if the dog has a long neck, to make it seem like it has better neck into shoulder. If they have a stuffy neck you cant do it anyway. I think muzzle should be level. My one dog will throw his head into the air upwards, this is not what you want, so we have to tug on him to keep his head down. I know that was not any help. As I said I cant write it down on messages. Rachel
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Post by daniela on Feb 27, 2006 21:10:15 GMT 1
That's very nice of you to say so! I think a lot of dogs could be left to free stand but it's whether they have the presence to carry it off. Half the time, if you don't stack them, they can look like a sack of spuds. I am sure I have met you but it would be nice to meet you again at Crufts.
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Post by mike on Feb 28, 2006 21:56:09 GMT 1
Please feel free to point out what we are doing wrong! Thanks
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Lois
Puppy
Posts: 171
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Post by Lois on Mar 1, 2006 11:14:12 GMT 1
Your dog has a lovely angulation in his front and rear but you need to stretch him out a bit further behind so that he levels his topline out. In the photo he is looking very 'bum high'. Set the off show side hind first and then the showside. Bend his back leg upwards before you set it down. This will keep his stifle well bent and by doing the show side leg last he will keep the weight on his offside and won't straighten his stifle on the show side. (Gosh I hope that makes sense!) I would stand up with the dog, and you can keep him in a more 'up' position. By squatting down the dog tends to relax and sinks into himself. Often they will lay back off their front. By standing up behind your dog you are also able to elevate his head giving a longer neck and 'proud' look.
If you can practice in front of a mirror (with a picture of a well stacked dog beside you) you will soon learn how far to stretch his hind and what looks good.
Good luck!
Lois
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Post by Landlord on Mar 1, 2006 23:30:58 GMT 1
I would just like to mention the lead as I was told this when I was starting. As you have it in the photo mike, it is kind of cutting the picture of his neck so it may be better to have it loose and further back round his shoulders or alternatively tight and further up his head (I suppose like stringing up but I don't do this I have mind loose)
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Post by mike on Mar 2, 2006 20:04:01 GMT 1
Thanks for the tips and advice. Also thank you for the nice things you said about Harley ;D
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Post by Weims on Mar 2, 2006 21:52:20 GMT 1
Hi Mike,
How old is Harley? He is a nice looking dog and I agree with Lois. He needs you to stretch his back legs a little further back or you can sometimes correct a "little bum high" by spreading his back legs a little wider but keeping his hocks straight up.
I have a pic of my bitch stood by my friend (she stands her really well).... I will try and post it... but I may need some help.. lol
Lynn
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Post by Weims on Mar 3, 2006 12:12:40 GMT 1
Would someone like to talk me thru putting a pic on here please?
Lynn
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Post by mike on Mar 3, 2006 12:23:26 GMT 1
Hi Lynn, I think there are two ways! One is to get an Admin to do it the other is to open an account with a host like photobucket or flickr and post the URL after pressing the little picture button above (next to email symbol on the toolbar above the smilies) so if you want to practice with HArleys pic and then edit it later for yours put this : i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/MikeEde/Harley.jpgbetween (img)(/img) but replace the ( ) with [ ] or failing that mail me the pic and i'll post it for you HTH
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Post by Weims on Mar 4, 2006 22:01:34 GMT 1
I hope this is the pic of tikka.....lol hey it worked Maybe a first post grad bitch at crufts..... fingers crossed? ;D
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Post by Jaeger on Mar 4, 2006 22:08:07 GMT 1
You even look younger than 33 in the picture Lynn
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