HD results around the world

[Jaeger]

How about the results and X-raying the dogs/bitches in Australia today? We never get an answers from down under in this question from Kobie.
I know for 12 years ago when we imported a bitch from Australia hardley anybody there X-rayed the hips!

[greydove]

There is no rule that breeders MUST hip xray their Weimaraners in Australia and therefore many breeders ignore this. Our average is 9.58 here at present. You cannot 'make' someone score their dog....

We publish our dogs hipscores on our website in comparative terms to European and American scores and we also publish all dogs we have bred who have been scored so people can see that too.

Until all breeders in Australia realise ther eis a problem many will tell you that there isnt one and that there is no need and some of the 'biggest names' will tell you this!

Narelle

[Kobie]

We have the same rule ! No owner of a Weimaraner is obligated to score the hips of his dog.
It's a pity, because a serieus breeder need to do this, in my opinion. Many European breeders will agree !

Of course the costs of a hipscore is big, but what is more important, the money or a base with displasia free dogs.

But Narelle, we have also breeders who will not score their dogs, this problem is worldwide.
They reason like this. Why do this costs, we can have the pedigrees without hipscore and can sell them also as a dog with good lines....(or as a pet to ingorant people).

Kobie

[marjolein]

We do have the score our dogs, before we're able to breed them. But, when you have no intentions to breed, you don't necessarily have to hip score.
So I made my puppy buyers score their dogs too, no matter what their plans re: breeding were. I put a clausule in the contract and made them score their dogs between 12 and 24 months of age. I also told them why I wanted this and none of them found this a problem.

[daniela]

Hi Kobie

Here, a total score of 18 would mean 5 over the current KC/BVA breed average of 13.

Daniela

[grausturm]

This is a very interesting topic. I have often wondered how comparable results are. I have only just started hipscoring recently as it was never recognised as a problem in the breed in Australia. I have used the same vet to take the xrays and same reader. They are sent off to be read by a specialist in the field. This way I can at least hopefully compare my own dogs with each other.
As far as I am aware all dogs in Australia have to be anaethetised. It was recommended to me that they be two years old and not in oestrus. I always do hips and elbows.
cheers ingrid.

[marjolein]

Think I haven't posted this yet:

members.aol.com/LeoClubGB/HIPS.html

[Kobie]

At this point, you can see Belgian hips are very strikt.
I have the example.

A bitch was hipscored in Belgium.... HD/D.....
Her breeder couldn't believe this hipscore (and probably couldn't except either)

The same Xrays were sended to the UK for a second opinion. She got totally of 18 !!!!
You can see that a total of 18 at the scedule is been compared to B1 !!!!!

So I think there is a huge problem her !
The Belgian committee is convinced that they have the right methode and would like to have other countries do the same ......
But the difference between D comparing to B1 is too huge for me.....
As I say, we live in a very strikt country, wich is good for the breed, but not for other countries who are thinking B is bad (as I have got once a email about this)

The bitch was neutered when the results came, the breeder wouldn't take any risks at all....

[marjolein]

I'm happy with the fact that Holland is strict as well. You're only fooling yourself, when it wasn't for a strict board and better results.

[Ingvild]

Here (in Norway) you can't register the puppies if the parents are not hip scored.

[tasha]

Average in the UK is 13 not 16 and it changes each year but this has been our average for several now. It is preferable to find a dog that has low hip scores under the average that is even on both sides.

Our ratings are for the Norberg Angle which most dogs show as 0:0, Subluxation that has a possible rating of 6 for each side bonnies were 2:2 and Cranial Acetabular Edge again a possible 6 for each hip bonnies was again 2:2 so even on each side giving a total of 8, not perfect but within the breed average. We have lines in the uk that have high scores that are still bred from.

Current values are (01/01/06) Weimaraner: 1489 dogs tested, range is 0-89, Mean 13, median of 11 this is taken from the BVA website www.bva.co.uk/public/chs/hip_scheme.asp. Considering that this is the number of dogs that have been tested since the start of the scheme in 1978 vs the number of dogs breed each year in the UK, we are somewhat lacking in accurate data from a statistical point of view.

Bonnies scores would give her an estimate OFA rating G, FCI rating of A-2 and an SV german score of normal.

[greyrosie]

Just a note re HD in Australia. HD has been a problem in Australia for as long as I have been involved in Weimaraner and that's over 25 years. The 2nd Weimaraner that I bought, from top breeders, was diagnosed at 5 months with a grade 5 HD, was operated on but at 10 months had to be euthanised because his HD was so bad. Another bitch that bought also from a very reputable breeders had a score that showed she was not suitable for breeding. HD is a problem but is not talked about.
At the clinic where our dogs are x-rayed the dogs are sedated not anaesthetised and as far as I am aware this is common best practice. The X-rays are read by a specialist radiologist authorised to do so by AVA. he breed average has been brought down in Australia, not because the problem is decreasing but because the quality of the dogs presented by the few breeders who are hip scoring is bringing it down. There are dogs out there who should not be bred from.

[tasha]

the uk system requires that the scoring is checked by a second person. we have several top breeders that breed from dogs with bad hip scores some of whom export around the world where the dogs become champions.

[lizgundog]

Greyrosie you make it sound like Australia has a huge HD problem in Weis, this is not true, there are some dogs out there with scores slightly higher than the breed average. Nearly every reputable breeder in Australia has their dogs hip scored. My husband and I have been in the breed over 30 years in both showing and field work, your posting is the first I have ever heard of a Wei being put down with HD. I think we have more chance of loosing Weis to immune problems than HD - and we don't get a lot of those either. There are not many people in Australia who are breeding without carefully checking into the background of the dogs they are using. We are extremely lucky that we don't have huge quantities of Weis being bred by pet people.
Lizgundog

[Lois]

In my 30+ years of involvement with Weis in Australia I have heard of only a few dogs with severe HD. Interestingly a few of these have been longhairs. When I started hip scoring every dog I bred with (about 15 years ago) not many breeders were doing the same. I heard many breeders say things like 'I don't have any problems in my dogs, so I don't need to hip score' I didn't have any problems either and I wanted to keep it that way and unless you hip score you will never know!
Thankfully most reputable breeders are now hip scoring their dogs in an effort to keep the 'problem' to a minimum.
I wouldn't consider it a big problem here and hopefully it will stay that way with the co-operation of those breeding.
Lois

[tasha]

interestingly enough in some breeds the show dogs are scored but the working dogs aren't because that community believe that if the dog can go all day then there isn't a problem with hips. Cocker Spaniels are one such breed.

Personally I'd like to see it as a mandatory test along with eye tests which are not currently collected by the BVA in the UK. At the moment if there was a problem which could be tested for even if you do the test the results are not collected because the breed does not have a significant enough problem to record them :-(

In the uk the worst scored dog or bitch to date has a score of 89 (40/49).

[tasha]

If anyone is interested a copy of the UK HIP scores can be purchased on disk from the kennel club and the americans information is readily available on their OFA website where the information is freely available.

[Sylvia]

On the OFFA site you can indeed get all the hipresults which are published. And that is for free.
But a little note by the results on OFFA. The owners of the dogs can choice to publish or not. It is not that all the results are on the OFFA site.
So there will be of course people that do not publish there bad hipresults because they do not want it to be published to the public.

[tasha]

you can request those from OFFA its costs about $25 which is basically to cover the costs of the disk and a small fee for the info. There data onlyy goes back to 1974 though.

[Sylvia]

tasha said:

you can request those from OFFA its costs about $25 which is basically to cover the costs of the disk and a small fee for the info. There data onlyy goes back to 1974 though.

The CD has exact the same results as you can find online.
Also on the CD aren't all results.