tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 17, 2009 19:19:15 GMT 1
A topic has come up on another forum on the number of litters that a stud dog can have in a lifetime. With the UK there is no restriction for a stud dog it can basically be used as many times as you want to including via frozen sperm after its dead. I don't personally think this is a good idea and would prefer to see a restriction on stud dogs the same as there currently are for bitches. What restrictions if any are there on stud dogs in other countries?  |
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Post by marjolein on Jan 17, 2009 22:23:59 GMT 1
4 Matings for a SH and 3 matings for a LH per life in Holland.
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Post by Fala Love'a on Jan 17, 2009 22:26:20 GMT 1
No restrictions for any breed in Poland which I think is not a bad thing.
Cheers
Magda
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Post by Jaeger on Jan 18, 2009 0:31:32 GMT 1
As Marjolein said. There are restrictions in Holland for mating.The shorthair 4 and for the longhair 3 times in his lifetime..
But this is only for the Dutch Club and in Holland. In any other country he can mate all the bitches if asked.
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Post by Sylvia on Jan 18, 2009 1:02:26 GMT 1
No restrictions for any breed in Poland which I think is not a bad thing. Cheers Magda Well I do think that any restrictions are good. For the Genetic diversity it is very good to use more different males. Because everything what is done now has consequences for the future. For example to tell about the past (70's and 80's) How many dogs can you find in the USA without Colsidex Standing Ovation? And to look at UK? How many dogs are there without Flimmoric Fanclub? (And he is a grandson from Standing Ovation) And what are the consequences of that right now?... So i do understand restrictions. There are more countries who have restrictions. As for example Denmark and Sweden. And for most of the countries it is the same as for the Netherlands. That is only for their own country. So they can mate what they want outside the country. |
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Post by marjolein on Jan 18, 2009 11:04:24 GMT 1
it is the same as for the Netherlands. That is only for their own country. So they can mate what they want outside the country. But if you're not a member of the Dutch Weimaraner Club, you can use your dog at stud as often as you'd like. |
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Post by Fala Love'a on Jan 18, 2009 12:26:56 GMT 1
I think that today in most countries like Poland there is no need to introduce such restrictions. Our breed is quite popular here, there are many studs and quite few breeders who always look not only for a good stud but also for his pedigree trying to incorporate new lines which would make their breedings more unique.
At the end of 90’s we had in PL a stud that was mated to probably 90% of polish bitches but fortunatelly it only made the breed more popular (new breeders, new imports, abroad matings ect) and today we have quite diverse gene pool in our country.
Cheers
M
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Post by Sylvia on Jan 18, 2009 12:37:10 GMT 1
it is the same as for the Netherlands. That is only for their own country. So they can mate what they want outside the country. But if you're not a member of the Dutch Weimaraner Club, you can use your dog at stud as often as you'd like. Yes indeed, In Denmark that is not possible because the Kennel Club has there restrictions wit the 5% rule. |
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tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 18, 2009 12:42:34 GMT 1
but popularity should never be the reason to breed.... if it mated 90% of the polish bitches then it shares the same problem that we have in the UK with diversity.
The UK Kennel club are introducing alot of different measures with regard to breeding I am hoping that the consideration of genetic diversity requirement will push forward a limitation on the number of times a dog can be used here to benefit the breed.
What restrictions are there in Denmark and Sweden do they match the ones in Holland??
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Post by Fala Love'a on Jan 18, 2009 12:59:54 GMT 1
Of course....
It's a bit different in PL, from that time we have had many imports from all over the world from different lines so today I do not see a problem with diversity of polish weims gene pool.
Cheers
Magda
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tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 18, 2009 14:22:32 GMT 1
is everyone there breeding to imports then?? that would be interesting.
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Kobie
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Post by Kobie on Jan 18, 2009 17:08:09 GMT 1
We at FJ try to keep the genepool wide. It's like Sylvia says, good dogs have also badder qualities (no dog is perfect), so the qualities (good and bad) are always doubling if they are used frequently in the same lines ... I don't have a problem with linebreeding if its in reason.
In Belgium, there is no rule for maximum matings for a stud dog. Personal I think its a pity, as small our country already is, many dogs are family in some way.
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Weimy
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Post by Weimy on Jan 18, 2009 23:10:59 GMT 1
I strongly agree with your statement Kobie!
I don't think we have such a restrictions in Slovenia but I think there should be!
Regarding weimaraners we don't have such problems so far but for some other breeds there are
many linebreedings and within that also many problems (golden retrievers...).
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Post by fyreside on Jan 19, 2009 11:49:53 GMT 1
In Australia there are no restrictions about how often a stud can be used. Many breeders research in depth before they use a dog to check for problems and also to find out how often he has been used and what was thrown. I personally tend not to use any dog that has been used alot as I also feel that the gene pool needs to be as wide as possible. You don't want to breed yourself into a corner.
Marg
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Post by calla on Jan 20, 2009 23:16:19 GMT 1
Here in Germany a stud is allowed to be used 5 times in a period of 2 years (in within the country).
I lived 15 years in America and was very involved in showing. Since there is no control what so ever in the AKC, the breeders can do what they want. I owned 5 wonderful American Weims but I was very lucky. The level of inbreeding in America is very high. Genetic diseases are an open secret. When I returned to Germany I found out about the popularity of the Weimaraner in the show ring, and the vast imports of US-Weimaraners.
Yes they are beautiful but beauty comes sometimes to a high price !
A true Weimaraner must have hunting instincts and skills (not only field search and pointing) they are true versatile hunting dogs. Otherwise these dogs are no Weims to me just grey dogs - sorry !
Another story is the lack of knowledge of European judges. The original German(FCI) standard differs a bit from the AKC one. Moderation is the key word !!!!
To many show dogs have too big of a chest (for-chest and depths) and are over-angulated. Also lack most show Weims the proportion 11:12. Which means the dogs has to be longer than high.
When I showed Weims in the early 90´s in the US Weims looked like Weims. Now they have chests like Pointers and rear angulation and a topline like a GSD !
I know breeds change during time, but right now we have a valid standard, and the judges should go by that.
Greetings and a honest opinion from Germany
Nadja
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tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 21, 2009 12:14:25 GMT 1
Nadja is their breed career over after the 2 years or can they continue to be used??
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Post by calla on Jan 22, 2009 11:58:55 GMT 1
Tasha, their breeding career is not over ! The Germans just want to make sure that in a 2 year period a single male can not sire more than 5 litters. If for an example he used up all 5 of his maitings, than he has a 1 year pause. After that 1 year he has again 5 maitings for the next 2 years. And so on and on....
With 10 years old they get removed from the studdog list, but still are allowed to be bred.
Nadja
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tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 22, 2009 12:34:59 GMT 1
ahhhh I see  |
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Post by stelei on Jan 22, 2009 19:17:48 GMT 1
Hi Tasha.
How many Weimaraners, approximatly, are alive in Germany today? 1.500? This number might come in handy to docoment the suicidal way our clubs, including the Kennel Clubs, are handeling the breeds. Again, I refer to the BBC-documentary.
- Stein
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tasha
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Post by tasha on Jan 22, 2009 20:47:41 GMT 1
Does Norway have any restrictions on stud use??? or breeding in general???
I really do have to say this most strenuously as a media student the program you keep quoting which has done nothing for our breed at all other than make the situation worse in the UK was edited to be sensationalist concentrating on specific breeds that have a genuine health risk.
Our breed does not have these risks they do not have heads that are too small for their brains, they do not have spines which are by rights incorrect, they do not have breathing problems down to noses or skin restricting them - these are the hereditary health risks highlighted in the program, none of which our breed has or would ever have because of our breed standard in the UK.
We have used popular studs but any pedigree dog breed has a popular stud they are all related whether we like it or not because they are a pedigree breed created by inbreeding to get a standard for a dog. Although we now have larger numbers they all came from a few select dogs in Germany that were exported around the globe.
In the UK we do have some breeding restrictions that apply to bitches if you are a member of the WCGB you are only allowed to breed 3 litters from a bitch in a lifetime between the ages of 2-7years with a minimum of a one year gap between each litter. We do not have stud restrictions but looking at majority of the countries neither do they although we would like to see a restriction.
The program you quote has in fact done more harm than good for some breeds like for an example the Weimaraner. Our code of conduct was recently changed for a mandatory one issued by the kennel club which increased the number of litters that a bitch can have and the age range that she can have them from 3 to 6 litters in a lifetime no restriction on a period between litters and from and earlier to a later age range. This is a detriment to our breed NOT an improvement.
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