Obedience weims..

[indy]

How many of you compete in obidience with you'r weims??
And what kind of obidience??

[emma]

indy,
I don´t compete yet with Aku but I have plans to do so in the future. He is only 6 months old now so I guess next summer is a realistic goal to start competing.
We do train however and I train both formal obedience and hunting obedience. Here in Finland we compete formal obedience according to FCI regulations as you do too in Sweden I guess. With hunting obedience I mean obedience that is needed for the trials and also for the hunting obedience competition.
Aku learn very fast, he is a very bright boy but he is not able
to stay focused for very long times yet
I do know that there is at least one weim competing actively in formal obedience here in Finland and I know they have done very well.

[indy]

Allways nice to see more weims competing in obidience. I will keep my thumbs crossed fore you!

We compete i several types of obidience in sweden. Obidience with just the obidience work ( a lot like the FCI regulations I think.. but not all the same) There you have 4 classes and you need 3 1st prices to get an diploma in each degree, but you can pass on to the next degree as soon as you get a 1st price in one degree.

We alsow have the "working" obidience (pastoral dogs are the most common for this) where you can compete in 4 different types of "work" and they all include the same obidiencet, getting more difficult as you go on. You kan copmpete in: Searching, Tracking, Protection and Repporting. ( I'm not sure about the terms.. maybe someone else from Sweden can describe them better???)
Here you have 4 classes and you need to pass one to get to the other. The obidience resembles the obidience at the regular obidience trails but here you have some different obidience work, such as walking ahead, barking, crawling and you have gunfire during some moments.

You can alsow compete in BHP/IPO but not many do that so far..

[emma]

indy said:

We compete i several types of obidience in sweden. Obidience with just the obidience work ( a lot like the FCI regulations I think.. but not all the same) There you have 4 classes and you need 3 1st prices to get an diploma in each degree, but you can pass on to the next degree as soon as you get a 1st price in one degree.

This is the same as formal obedience here in Finland and with the same rules as well

indy said:

We alsow have the "working" obidience (pastoral dogs are the most common for this) where you can compete in 4 different types of "work" and they all include the same obidiencet, getting more difficult as you go on. You kan copmpete in: Searching, Tracking, Protection and Repporting. ( I'm not sure about the terms.. maybe someone else from Sweden can describe them better???)
Here you have 4 classes and you need to pass one to get to the other. The obidience resembles the obidience at the regular obidience trails but here you have some different obidience work, such as walking ahead, barking, crawling and you have gunfire during some moments.

You can alsow compete in BHP/IPO but not many do that so far..

I think also this is the same as we have in Finland for Working dogs (Brukshund in swedish?) but here in Finland only breeds that are approved by the Finnish Working Dog Federation can participate in these trials. In Sweden I think all breeds can participate?
Weimaraners are not allowed to participate except for the Rescue dogs-trials where all breeds can participate. For Weimaraners to be allowed to participate in the working dog trials the breed club would have to apply for permission and pay for it as well. There is no interest in this here in Finland because we don´t have so many Weimaraners and most weim owners are happy to have them as hunters/companions

[indy]

So we have the same formal obidiece rules?
Fun! Does that mean that I can go to Finland and compete in obidience?
Maybe one day when we have gotten our obidience championship here in sweden ;D...

Yepp, brukshund is right. To bad you can't compete in the trials in Finland. They are so fun! But you can always come to sweden and compete

I have a feeling the formal obidience in England is mutch easier than here in Sweden. Does anyone know anything about this??

[aktyson]

Hi Indy,

I don't know about the English rules, but I compete in formal obedience in the States. I'd love to learn more about obedience in other countries and how it compares with AKC.

We have three levels of titling classes - novice, open & utility - and the dog has to pass with a score of 170 out of 200 three times to earn a title and be able to move up to the next level. Once the dog has their utility title they can start competiting for points on their championship in the open & utility levels. The championship points are awarded based on placement in the class and varies depending on how many dogs are entered that day. 100 points and three wins are required.

The Novice class consists of two heeling exercises, a recall exercise, a stand for examination exercise and two group stay exercises (one sit and one down with the handlers across the ring). The Open class consists of heeling, a retrieve, a retrieve over a jump, a send over a jump, a drop on recall exercise and two group stay exercises with the handlers out of sight. The Utility class consists of scent discriminations on a metal and a leather item, a moving stand and examination, two send aways and direct to jump, a directed retrieve of one of three gloves and a heeling exercises that ends with down, sit & recall signals from across the ring.

Every dog starts with 200 points and the judge makes deductions for each 1/2 point error that he/she sees. In the competitive championship classes the winning dog usually scores upwards of 198.

How is that similar or different from FCI/Sweden?

Thx, Anne

[indy]

Sounds a bit different and yet some things sounds the same. As I said earlier we hav etwo different types of obidience. Pastoral/working/bruks-obidience (not only obidience in a ring but alsow some type of work such as, tracking, searching, protection or reporting(not sure of the name och reporting...)and formal obidience .

I know a girl that has some movies of the different tasks in each class:

tomik.se/FILMER/lklIII2006-07-01.wmv

( a big file that may be hard to look at.. this is class 3. We have classes 1-2-3 and Elite the last one is where you get the certificats for a championship and you need thre 1sr prices to get one)

www.klickerklok.se/twfilm.htm

Klick on the words Spela film Some class 3 and Elite excersises.

www.klickerklok.se/missymovies.htm

Some movies of another dog. click on the two with the words klass I

I will try to write down each class in english, but not tonight

[aktyson]

Thanks for the links to the videos! My computer is too slow to play them but I'll get to see them soon at a friends house. I live too far out in the country for fast internet service. :-(

I'm looking forward to the descriptions of the exercises.

Anne

[indy]

I'm working on the document :-) I have classes 1-3 alomst done.
What do you call teh thing that the dog retrieves? We have one in wood, one i metal and one thats heavy.

[Wetdog]

They are called "dumbbells".

[indy]

Here is info regarding the Elite class that we have. It is according to the F.C.I

www.fci.be/uploaded_files/Obedience_EN.doc

And here is a bit about our formal obidience.:

This is what you get graded in


Obedience class 1:


Group 2 min down stay with handlers 20 metres away (in plain sight)

An examination of the teeth while the dog is sitting by its handler.

Heelwork on leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Heelwork off leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Down stay during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog.

Stand during heelwork. Stops, returns and finish with the dog sitting in heel position


Recall: You leave the dog sitting and remove yourself 15 m and recall on command

Stopping to a halt during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog.

High jump and then back into correct heel position as the handler meets the dog on the other side of the jump.

Over all impression

Class 2:

Group down stay with hidden handlers for 3 min.

Heelwork off leash: With turns, stops and different paces

Down stay during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog.

Recall with a stop and stand in the middle and then another recall.

Stand during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog.

Retrieving a wooden dumbbell

Changing positions from a distance. You leave the dog lying down 5 meters away. Then command: sit-down-sit-down, and return to the dog and finish with a sitting heel position.
Jumping over hurdle, sitting down and jumping back into heel position.

Over all impression


Class 3:

Group down stay for 4 min. with hidden handlers

Heelwork with turns, stops and different paces, turns on the spot and moving in different directions such as two or three steps to the left, to the right, and backwards.

Dropping down during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog.

Recall with one stop to a standing halt and one stop laying down.

Sending the dog ahead to a square 25 meters away. Stopping the dog in the square and commanding down. Then walk towards the square turn away just before, walk another 10 m. and turn towards your starting point and in the middle of the last section you recall the dog into a heel as you don't stop and have your back against the dog.

Retrieving a wooden dumbbell after high jump

Retrieving a metal dumbbell

Nose work: locating a stick with the handler's scent and retrieving it

Changing positions from a distance of 15 m. You leave the dog lying down and the give the command: stand-sit-down-stand-sit-down

[indy]

Here is a bit about the BRUKS obidience. Another type of obidience we have here..:

Bruks obedience

Appell class

Group 3 min down stay with handlers 30 metres away (in plain sight)

Heelwork on leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Walking ahead on leash. You start with heelwork strait ahead and on command the dog should remove itself ahead as long as the leash is, without pulling on the leash, and walk ahead for about 25 meters. There you put the dog to a halt, walk up to the dog, turn around and do the same thing on the way back.

Heelwork off leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Down stay during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog for 10 meters.

Recall: You leave the dog sitting and remove yourself 15 m and recall on command

Retrieving a wooden dumbbell

High jump and then back into correct heel position as the handler meets the dog on the other side of the jump.

Special moments in appell class: You have three different alternatives.
You have to do this as well as the obedience:

Sending to an unknown figurant 50 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. + Tracking in open terrain for 300 meters with two angels, retrieving 3 sticks in the track. The track is made by the handler.

Sending to an unknown figurant 50 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. + Reporting from point B to point A and then back to pint B. Both handlers go to point A, then the dog and one of the handlers walk towards point B 500 meters away in open terrain. They wait at point B for a while and the dog must remain quiet at all times. Then the dog is sent back to point A, waits at point A for a while and then will be sent back to point B.

Sending to an unknown figurant 50 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. + Searching an area 100 x 50 meters with one person to mark that the dog can see and one person hidden. One is sitting down and one is lying down. The dog can tell It's handler that he has found a person in two ways, either by barking until the handler can come to the dog or by taking a small roll in It's mouth, run back to the handler and then guide the handler (on leash) to the "hidden" person.

Lower class

Group 5 min down stay with handlers 40-60 metres away (in plain sight) 4 shots are fired during the stay.

Heelwork on leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Walking ahead on leash. You start with heelwork strait ahead and on command the dog should remove itself ahead as long as the leash is, without pulling on the leash, and walk ahead for about 25 meters. There you put the dog to a halt, walk up to the dog, turn around and do the same thing on the way back.

Heelwork off leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Down stay during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog for 25 meters

Recall: You leave the dog sitting and remove yourself 25 m and recall on command

Crawl: The dog should be crawling in heel position for 3 meters. It has to be close to the ground at all times.

Retrieving a wooden dumbbell

Jumping over hurdle, sitting down and jumping back into heel position.

Special moments in appell class: You have three different alternatives.
You have to do this as well as the obedience:

Protection: Sending to an unknown figurant 100 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. Shots are fired when the dog is 50 meters from the handler + Tracking a 400 meters long track not made by the handler and 50-60 minutes old. Multiple angels and three sticks to retrieve in the track. + Protection work transporting a "bad guy" 3 meters a head ,and after 25 meters 1 meters ahead. The dog should be calm but stay focused on the "bad guy". After 75 meters the "bad guy" attacks the handler and the dog should stop the attack. The dog is wearing a muzzle during this moment. + Catching the "bad guy" the dog should catch the "bad guy" as he is trying to escape. When the bad guy stops the dog should back off and guard the "bad guy" until the handler comes. The dog is wearing a muzzle during this moment. + Attacking without muzzle

Tracking: Sending to an unknown figurant 100 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. Shots are fired when the dog is 50 meters from the handler + Finding a track not made by the handler and tracking it retrieving 8 sticks in the track. The track is 1 km long and has several angels.

Searching: Sending to an unknown figurant 100 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. Shots are fired when the dog is 50 meters from the handler + Searching an area 100 x 100 meters as you walk along in the middle directing the dog in it's search. 3 figurants are hidden, one is visible, one is concealed and one is completely hidden. The dog can mark a person by either barking until the handler comes or running back to the handler and guiding the handler to the figurant.

Reporting: Sending to an unknown figurant 100 meters away. The dog runs to the unknown figurant, heels and sits down. The figurant then sends the dog back to it's handler. Shots are fired when the dog is 50 meters from the handler + Reporting from point B to point A (1100 meters) and from point A to point C (1500 meters). The dog and it's two handlers start by making a "home station" at point A. (The dog is placed lying down and tied up at every "station" and must be quiet at all times). Then the dog and one of the handler's walk toward point B. The dog is sent back to point A. and the handlers at point B move the station 400 meters away before the dogs are sent back to the new point, point C. When all the dogs have arrived at point C they break camp and walk back to point A.

Higher class

Group 5 min down stay with handlers 40-60 metres away (in plain sight) 4 shots are fired during the stay

Heelwork off leash. With turns, stops and different paces

Recall with a stop and stand in the middle and then another recall.


Forward march. The dog removes itself (from a heelwork off leash) forward 15 meters and keeps this distance to the handler as he passes through a group of 4 people. After passing the group the dog is recalled and the heelwork continues. This is done in both directions. The dog has to be in a straight line in front of the handler.

Down stay during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog for 25 meters.

Stand during heelwork as the handler continues his/her march without the dog for 10 meters.

Crawl: The dog should be crawling in heel position for 5 meters with a stop in the middle where the dog is to remain in down position. It has to be very close to the ground at all times.

Barking. The dog should bark continuously on command, be quiet on command.

Jumping over hurdle, sitting down and jumping back into heel position.

Retrieving a heavy dumbbell (4 kilos for weimaraner)

Special moments in higher class: You have three different alternatives.
You have to do this as well as the obedience:

I will write more about the special moments and what changes as they get more difficult and more about the Elite class...

[aktyson]

Thanks, Indy!

Your formal obedience is very similar to ours. Kinda like what I saw watching videos from Crufts. My friend mentioned that the judge holds up the score after every exercise though - kinda like diving competitions. That is different from here where the scores are hidden until the placements are given. Even then you don't see your individual scores - you have to go to the secretary to look at your score sheet after its posted in order to keep track of that.

The BRUKS obedience sounds fun! We don't have anything like that here that I know of. Certainly nothing in AKC, UKC or CKC. Is that a Swedish-only obedience or do they do that kind of obedience in other countries, too? I enjoy the challenge of teaching new exercises so I might try some of these with Diesel just for fun.

Thanks again,

Anne

[jai]

Thanks so much Indy,
I have saved the link so I can go back and forth to look at it in things for training Falko. Even if we don't do any obedience, it is nice to have a working copy to follow for day to day pracitce and training. At least it will keep him occupied and interested on our walks/training.. Can you tell me how much of this he will need to be able to do for the puppy class for 6-9 months? I am thinking of entering him in one of the shows in late March or April..
thanks again.. jai

[indy]

I would say that the most important thing is to be able to relax! That is a good thing to start with! And to pay atention to you, you will need his atention in the heel-work.

If you wor going to compete I would advise you to reward SPEED in everything. Quick down, quick sit, quick recall an so on. It should be FUN!

I saw now that you asked about a dog show.. I missunderstood :-) I thought you ment a class at a dog obidience clubb ...
Well to enter him in a show all he has to do is run and stand still.. thats it! :-D

[jai]

color=Purple][/color] Hi Indy,
Thanks for the reply. I will work on his speed, it seems that he will probably need it for something along the way. He is learnng to heel, but he likes to sit in front of me or on my feet instead of next to me. I am so glad when we go out and we are working on this everyday people don' hear me saying "I'm the leader.. I'm the leader."lol And tryng to get him to walk with his head up instead of smelling the ground is fun too!!
I will put some of this in my work out with hm and I will let you know how things are coming!
jai

[emma]

jai, walking in front of the owner is probably a weimaraner trait because Aku wants to do that too
One way to avoid it is to always keep the treats in your left hand. If you keep the treats in your right hand the dog wants to go there and will automatically come in front of you. Also when you give the dog the treat, give it on the dogs left side. It would be easier to show with a photo but I don't have one at hand right now
But the main point is to have and give all the treats to the left so the dog doesn't benefit from coming in front of you.
Aku has a really annoying way of wanting to lean on my legs when heeling. It is not very easy to walk with almost 32 kg weimaraner on your left leg... ;D

[jai]

Hi Emma!
Boy do I know how that feels. I swear he walks into me, or pushes me or decides to gradually "move" me to another position. I do keep the treats in my right pocket and cross my body to give them. I will switch to the left side. A little awkward, but definitely worth a shot. the other night at hunting lesson, he kept sitting in the wrong place and Wolfgang was trying to get me to correct him because he alsways has to sit and in the right places. Well tomorrow is another day and we will see.. he will be 5 months on Monday, so I am hoping things will get easier!! LOL!
Take care and thanks for the reply!
Jai and Falko!

[rachmistyayela]

Wow thats really interesting... very different from our obedience here. It's like some of working trials is incorporated into your formal obedience.

In New Zealand obedience technically has 5 classes however there are two more unofficial classes to allow people with dogs in domestic obedience classes to make the transition to competition obedience.

New handlers with their first dogs start in elementary 1
All other handlers start in Novice.

Elementary 1 (unofficial class)

Dog heels with owner. Right turns, about turns and 1 left turn.
Recall on lead (with present and finish)
1/2 minute sit stay on lead
1 minute down stay on lead

Elementary 2 (unofficial class)

Dog heel with owner . Right turns left turns and about turns
Recall off lead (with present and finish)
1/2 min sit stay off lead facing dog
1min down stay off lead facing dog

Special Beginners

Dog heel on lead (right, left and about turns)
Dog heels off lead (right left and about turns)
Recall off lead with present and finish
1 minute sit stay
2 minute down stay

Novice

Dog heel on lead as for specials
Dog heel off lead as for specials
Recall as for specials
Dumbell retrive with present and finish
1 min sit stay facing away from dog
2 min down stay facing away from dog

Test A

Dog heel on lead with combonation turns. Owner not allowed to talk/give xtra commands
Dog heal off lead - combo turns and no talking
Recall - handler walks in circle and calls dog to heel position
Retrive dumbell
Sit stay one min facing away from dog
down stay 5mins handler outta site
Scent - dog to find handlers cloth in amungst 8 - 12 other cloths

Test B

Dog heel free with combonation turns, circles and pace changes
Sendaway to markers, drop and recall
retrieve dumbell
stand 1 min face away
sit 2 min handler outta site
down 10mins handler outta site
scent as above but 2 decoy cloths are placed

Test C

Heel course involves more weird turns and circles
Sendaway as above
distance control (dog has to go between stand sit and down without moving forward, handler stands at a distance)
stays like test b
scent - dog must find cloth with judges sceent on it. two decoy cloths involved as well

So this is our formal obedience ... you must win a class twice to go up to the next.

Our obedience qualification (CDX) involves:

stand for examination by judge (handler stands about 5 meters away)
Test A recall
Heel free with no talking or hand movements in a set heelwork course
call your dog to you, drop it at the markers then recall the dog to you with present and finish
Scent like test A
stays like test b

(cd = 75%+ of points overall cdx= 90%+ points overall)

Then we have working trials which involves some of the exercises your formal obedience has:

UD

heelwork course like test b but less precise cos it's in a pugged up paddock with cow pats!
sendaway 50m down dog then recall to present and finish
retrive dumbell over a solid jump
long jump lenght = 4x dogs height
do a wall scale 3 x dogs height (max is 1800 - this is the wei height)
10 minute outta sight down stay
do a line track in a paddock 1/2 old with 4 legs to it and find article at end
do a seeback where you heel out with dog dropping a small article on the way and the dog has to track back and find it

(90% = UDX 75% = UD)

WD

heelwork as above but has the clear and long jumps included during the heel work course
sendaway is same but handler must redirct dog eith right or left 20m wen they get out there before downing dog then calling it back
stay = same
track = 1 1/2 hrs old over undulating terrain with 2 articles
search involves finding 4 articles in a square that has been fowled by lots of people walking through it before the exercise starts. handler can't go in the large square

TD
track on a hard surface and find 3 articles
do a free track ie handler stays behind peg dog tracks off on won to find article
do a 3 hour old line track over hilly land and find 3 articles

(TD and WD qualifications as above)
(wortking trial champion has CDX, 2 UDX, 2 WDX, 2 TDX)
(obedience champion has a bunch - cant remember how many of challenges for getting 1st /2nd in test c on a certain amount of points.

As you can see our obedience is quite different to your guys... just thort i would contrast.

Oh and in nz currently there are 5 wei's competeing in obedience i know of.

i know of 3 that are currently training and hope to compete...

ie wei's in obedience are few and far between... but im trying to encourage it!! Can but hope to see more grey dogs in the ring!!!

[indy]

WOW really nice to read!

Allways nice to hear of more weims in obidience!

I hope we get more weims in the higher classes here to, they are rally good and should get a chanse to proove it.

Your working part sounds a bit like our obidience :-) But the other classes sounds WAY to easy ;-)

I will borrow a videocam and record some of our obidience soon. If you have a oportunity I would LOVE to see some!!

The best of luck to you all obidience weims!!