American vs. European Lines

[daniela]

The question being, why choose the Weimaraner, there are other breeds, and there are other hunting breeds. What is it that makes the Weimaraner special to you as a breed.

This question is easy for me to answer. For me, it was not a question of choice as I have been brought up with the breed. It was my Dad who started it all. He was out one day and saw one being walked. This was in the 1970s and back then the breed was pretty rare so he had no idea what the breed was. He immediately went into to a pet shop, and looked on one of those maps with all the breeds on, identified it as a Weimaraner, bought some breed books (pretty poor hand manuals back then) and then went out and bought one.

I think it’s fair to say that given the circumstances as to how my Dad came to see the breed for the first time, there are no other reasons as to why the Weimaraner caught his eye other than pure aesthetics (but then he always did go for looks ;D). All the other stuff that he dabbled in such as showing, tracking and agility came later.

So it didn’t take long for us to realise that the Weimaraner is not only visually beautiful but that he’s damned clever with it too - the rarity of the species combining brains and beauty. And if I could wipe out my early years and know nothing of the grey ghost, and pick a breed for the first time, I would, without question, pick a Weimaraner.

[Alkemist]

Wow Fred, I can't do quotes but that was a really nice thing to say. Thanks, I'll send you the cash later hehe.

Some great points here, just goes to show how versatile the Weimaraner really has to be - to keep us all happy. That is a great thing too, with a weim, you can do whatever you want, because they are capable of doing retrieveing, hunting, tracking, protecting, agility, flyball, obedience and many many more. And of course, as has been pointed out, they can sit at your feet looking very lovely indeed, wherever they come from and whatever their lines .

[lizgundog]

I agree with Anne - the thing that makes a Wei a great hunter is it's temperament and intelligence, this is what also makes a good pet, it's how the dog is trained that really makes it a good companion. My husband had a dog and a bitch before I met him - he bought them for hunting dogs, our interest just grew from there. I think it is also important to remember that even if hunting in it's purest form is banned the dog world will still run tests and trials i.e. Retrieving and Instinct testing which can be done (and is done here out of hunting season). These trials simulate shooting conditions, you don't have to use a gun or a kill a bird to test a dogs working ability. I don't think the fox hunting people are stopping hunting in England just because they have banned running the fox down. I have been told (and they do this in Australia) that they use a fox scent to lay the trail for the hounds to follow - the fox just isn't there at the end of the trail (I have a close association with horse people here).
Liz

[Wetdog]

Wow Fred, I can't do quotes but that was a really nice thing to say. Thanks, I'll send you the cash later hehe.

Nina, highlight what you want to quote by holding down your left clicker and running your cursor over what you want highlighted, when you have what you want, right click and then click "Copy" in the drop down window. Then come to the post window--left click on the little piece of paper with the arrow. You will get

---then using the position arrows usually at the bottom right of the keyboard, arrow the cursor over between the brackets. Then right click, and left click "Paste" on the drop down window. Voila! you have your quotes.
You use the size and color buttons the same way, click the button, then position your cursor between the brackets. You'll see a number(starting with 2) in the brackets for size--backspace out 2 and put in a larger number to increase the size. Select the color you want in the drop down window next to the color button.


So, what I've been trying to say all along is that hunting ability is important, because that is exactly the same instinct that governs how well a dog performs at any type of work that dogs do. All canine work is based on some sort of instinct that originally derives back to hunting instinct. So, when you say you want good hunting dogs, keep in mind that you are really saying you want good working dogs, no matter what the type of work it is that they do.
Looks are important, VERY important. It sells dogs, breeds and cars. It creates an image. It creates a feeling, an image and a mysticque that can be far more important than function alone.
All automobiles do basically the same thing. They get you from point A to point B. But look at the wide variation in automobiles. Why would someone pay $400,000 for a Ferrari when they could do exactly the same thing with a Ford Focus? Because they don't just want to get from point a to point b---they want to do it with STYLE! They want to feel the adrenaline rush of knowing that they have the very best of the best. It's a gut feeling. It is an addiction. It is an idea, it is their statement to the world, "This is what I AM."
If you think that looks, performance and percieved mental image are not important--they ARE!!!! We are all creatures of emotion. It is what sells luxury and performance cars for many times the cost of basic economical transportion cars. And we all have it in us. Maybe not for cars per se--but there is something in EVERYONE that makes us want to say certain things about ourselves to others. So, the fact that you choose a certain type of car, or house and furniture, clothes, collectibles or the breed of dog you choose, all make a statement from you, about you, to the world--and this is a very important thing in life.
Look at Daniela's story. Her father saw one Weimaraner going for a walk. That sent him to get one of his own and started a tradition that has lasted 30 years so far and been passed from father to daughter.
I'd say looks are VERY important.

And it isn't only looks. Temperament, trainability, and all the other characteristics that make a dog what it is combine to create a feeling, an aura, a mental idea---that is why you choose a pure bred rather than a mutt for your dog.

[marjolein]

But like you said it Fred, it looks like we owners have one as a status symbol, which is absolutely not the case. I have one, partly because I think they're beautiful. But I don't think they're the Ferrari's under the dogs, absolutely not. It's just something I like.
As a matter of fact, there are quite a lot people who think they're ugly. That's ok with me (they don't have good taste, hehehehe).
You're right when you said looks are very important. I'd never want an ugly dog, even if it had the same abilities as the Weim. Their distinctive look is partly why I fell in lurve with them.

[Wetdog]

But like you said it Fred, it looks like we owners have one as a status symbol, which is absolutely not the case.

Don't think of it so much as a "status symbol" (which has a negative connotation)--think of it as your statement to the world about who and what you are.
It works in reverse just as much. Think of one person with a Ferrari and Armani suits---he is saying one thing--and a hippie with a VW van painted with psychadelic flowers and worn jeans and tie dyed tshirt saying something else.

There are all kinds of messages that you could send. The percieved public idea of what the Weimaraner is and what it represents to others who see them is what we should be discussing.

[Wetdog]

To make this work, everyone is going to have to step out of their own heads, and go rummage around a little about what is going on in other people's heads.

[Wetdog]

Have we hit an impass? Is everyone out of ideas?

What do you think of when you think of owning a Weimaraner? What do you want others to think of when they think of Weimaraners? What would be some ways to plant these ideas into the publics thoughts?

Do you want to continue to hunt? Do you want others to get interested in hunting?
How would you do that?

How do we get a Weimaraner that "has it all, brains, beauty, and temperament"? Can we learn some lessons from what other breeds have done? Are there some lessons to be learned from other breeds about what we should avoid doing?

[daniela]

I personally don’t see my dogs as a statement of who I am to the world. Nor do I think the clothes that I wear or the car I drive sum up who I am to the world either. In fact, to use your analogy Fred, if you were to rummage through my wardrobes (though I wouldn’t advise it, we may never see you again ), you would find an assortment of clothes bought from vintage clothing stores complete with hippy flowers right through to the odd designer label. If people want to pigeonhole me by what I wear, the car I drive or the dogs I own, than that is entirely up to them. It’s not a conscious decision to make statements about who I am by my choices in life.

That said, I am not foolish enough to think that, in the main, people don’t label others. I’m guilty of that and whilst I couldn’t really care for what people think of me by judging me on the outside, I know people who don’t know me, will have preconceived ideas about who I am by the things I own, including my breed of dog.

It’s difficult for me to make a sweeping statement about how others perceive the breed. We’ve already discussed that looks play an important factor and whilst I think the Weimaraner is the most beautiful of all creatures, the next person, may not think so (I beg them to get some help ).

However, I do think there is something about the Weimaraner’s stature, proud disposition, sleek coat, and distinctive grey colour amongst other attributes, which turns heads. I don’t think the majority of passers-by (those who you can see looking longingly from afar) could, sadly, care less about what he is capable of in terms of canine pursuits. I think if you’re new to dogs or the breed, once your interest is spurned, that comes later. It’s like anything in life. Your newly purchased car, or designer jacket may give you a thirst for more. For example, the shiny engine in a person’s new car may inspire them to learn about how to build engines or as another example, with clothes, the beautiful hand finished jacket could perhaps lead to a shopping habit. (guilty )

When I am out with my dogs, especially if I go into town, it’s not unusual for me to appear home an hour later than anticipated. People always want to stop and say “hello” to the dogs and to enquire about the breed. A kind of en route “meet the breed”. So I guess whether in bargain Armani (got to wait for the sales ) or flowery vintage, I don’t look too intimidating to approach and neither do my dogs.

[Wetdog]

Well Daniela, I think you have gotten a little caught up in my overly exaggerated examples(which I did to make things sort of stand out more clearly). You HAVE picked up on the idea of what I'm trying to say though.
Public perception is distorted and based primarily on looks, hearsay, and limited observation. You are correct in noting that "pidgeonholing" is not accurate--but it IS a fact of life, and we as keepers of the breed need to be aware of the image we project.
You are also correct in that deeper involvement only comes after an initial introduction. I'm trying to say that we need to give some concern to initial impressions and public perceptions if we want to benefit the breed. It will be very difficult to get good people involved in the breed if we don't.

[chiendog]

But look at the wide variation in automobiles. Why would someone pay $400,000 for a Ferrari when they could do exactly the same thing with a Ford Focus?

In a way they do the same job I suppose....point A to point B. There is however, a huge difference in performance.

I use Leica cameras, arguabley the best (and most expensive) cameras in the world. I use them because they are built like tanks and will last a lifetime. They also look good. In the case of Leicas and Ferraris, the looks match the performance.

In the case of a Weim, it is far too often a case of a Ford Focus dressed up to look like a Ferrari. The performance doesn't even come close to the looks. If Weimaraners performed in the field as well as they look in a show ring, they would be the best dogs in the world.

Unfortunately, most weims are, as they say "threes dressed up as nines".

[tasha]

:-) I love that ford focus dressed up like ferrari... so true!! I have a ferrari thats a mini in disguise I'm sure... Definitely an interesting topic.

I know that I brought my dog because she suits me, nothing to do with looks more to do with temperment, in that we are very similar we both always ask, why??? I have booked a cocker spaniel of the working variety because bonnie lacks in this area and I need a dog that will fulfill a hunting purpose. I work the shoots 6 days a week throughout the season. My next dog if it kills me will be of german decent because I genuinely believe that the english lines have lost alot of their hunting ability and many lines here have serious health faults combined with the fact that current hunting lines are all very closely related and we need more input into the pot so to speak. It'll be worth the wait I am sure if I can find a breeder.

Regarding the australian dogs being imported into the uk...err one gave us peaching :-( not something we would like in our gene pool but as its a return I suppose its only to be expected.

At the end of the day each line carries its faults knowing what those faults are and trying to improve them can only be a good thing. In the UK hunting is slowly but surely being destroyed and our dogs will soon be effected by the new docking rules, it'll be a sad day if the silly idiots in our capital who know little about the food chain win an outright ban especially for our dogs because I genuinely believe that they should be given every opportunity to fulfill their true criteria - to hunt.

My dog is show bred from the best show kennels in the country and I was told 'that don't won't hunt!' she has been slow to develop her hunting skills but slow or not she is now a steady working dog and her conformation allows her to go all day and still ask for more. I think given the opportunity any dog will hunt, you just need to know how to develop their skills, they might not excel enough to win trophies and titles but they will fulfill a basic task, hunt, point, retrieve.

I envy the germans their tests not just because it ensures hunting ability but because of the health aspect finding a stud in the UK is a minefield few people genuinely know their lines and others that do rarely are prepared to tell you they have a problem.

[Alkemist]

Tasha could you PM me more details on the peaching please.

Thanks
Nina

[tasha]

iI suppose one downside (dependant upon your personal views) of US imports is the introduction of Blue lines into an otherwise unaffected population. And we certainly won't always have the opportunity to go back to Germany for clear stock because they too have and use imported dogs themselves.

[Cheryl]

The past few days I've again rescued, but a pit bull pup, from a young man who saw Pojken/Boris, but not my sh weims. He said immediately that the next breed he wanted was a weim...I said, the weims need as much exercise mentally and physically as the pit pup he was relinquishing- she was now out of her third home, not counting the 3 times her 1st owner moved her in and out of temporarily, including mine via my daughter.

Looks, that was all he saw, had/has no knowledge, but surely, would end up with the same results out of a weim as he got with the pit pup. She severely wants to bond to someone, and to have a regular, dependable schedule, as her separation anxiety is beginning- I took her in and have encouraged her to enjoy out in the field with the 4 weims, a new world to her.

I tried to tell him, in the short time we had, he didn't really want that (weim) breed because it doesn't fit in his lifestyle but would he or most people listen? He will be hard put to find a long hair wei in our neck of the woods, and I believe the closest would be from the state of Ohio. If he's determined to obtain one, I know it will need rescue in a very short time. I sincerely hope he doesn't obtain a weim, short or long hair.

I will also be hard put to find a proper home for a pit pup or adult for that matter...

My family lives off the land and always have here, and the short hair weims have many wonderful qualities but cannot take our weather. They must be carefully supervised in order to not frostbite. My wonderful fast growing long hair wei is handling our weather very nicely, he tells me directly when I've been very sick two days that it is past time to work his brain and muscles.

The past week we have covered 3-6 miles one way for me, but more for the weims as they are covering ground on 4 legs while I on two, across the tundra, chasing reindeer, pointing geese, swan, crane, pintail ducks, seagulls and jaegars while I have contacted a very bad head/chest cold. There are not many people here who would take the time or effort to live with this breed, especially to have it live inside the house year round, also.

I have discovered as anticipated, Pojken's long hair is a bit messier with sand or mud, and will learn the coming year about shedding but I don't believe it will be so bad as golden retrievers shedding. These two "down falls" would be very unwanted in most people's homes, so the weim would not get the human companionship it needs for long hair weims.

I feel it is very dangerous for the short hair weims here, with the frostbite and the absolute need to be with their humans. I do not worry about heat here, just the cold. Many people here still lean toward the old days of the only place for a dog is the back of the truck, to jump out of and into or to fall out of and many times I've stopped people when our weather was severely cold and asked them if they would not put their dog in the cab to at least return home with it and not jeopardize its health in such cold weather.

I started retrieving fowl from the age of 5 years old, with my father's (bitch) weim. He and his best friend tried other breeds first but the weim was the best suited "all purpose" dog if you lived a lifestyle that supported its needs. Many people do not know a "pretty" weim from an "ugly" weim as all they see is the color, the grace, the power, not the conformation or minor details which make an over all beautiful and properly functioning, living, breathing, "machine."